A question about discrimination in the workplace

between parents and non parents?

1 to 20 of 72 messages
07/07/2014 at 20:40

A friend of mine has just been granted flexible working - he's 47 and single.

As long as it's fairly applied it's fine - in fact there should be more of it.

 

08/07/2014 at 06:24

Flexible working is a right but for a senior person it will still be frowned upon and it will take a good few years for anyone working flexibly in this way to make a real impression at the top. People who toe the line properly will always be considered ahead of the rest.

08/07/2014 at 07:22

They'll be wanting special car parking places outside the supermarket next.  

08/07/2014 at 08:16
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Flexible working is a right but for a senior person it will still be frowned upon and it will take a good few years for anyone working flexibly in this way to make a real impression at the top. People who toe the line properly will always be considered ahead of the rest.

Lots of people don't actually care about that stuff - they want a job not a career and a better work/life balance.

Pudge    pirate
08/07/2014 at 08:23
Screamapillar wrote (see)
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Flexible working is a right but for a senior person it will still be frowned upon and it will take a good few years for anyone working flexibly in this way to make a real impression at the top. People who toe the line properly will always be considered ahead of the rest.

Lots of people don't actually care about that stuff - they want a job not a career and a better work/life balance.

I would question whether I would want to work for any organisation that overlooks those on flexible working arrangements, in favour of those 'toeing the line', when dishing out promotions etc.

If an employer can't see beyond an employees adherence to regular working hours, then they are missing a trick.  In my experience, happy employees tend to be good, productive employees.

 

08/07/2014 at 08:45
 
Screamapillar wrote (see)
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Flexible working is a right but for a senior person it will still be frowned upon and it will take a good few years for anyone working flexibly in this way to make a real impression at the top. People who toe the line properly will always be considered ahead of the rest.

Lots of people don't actually care about that stuff - they want a job not a career and a better work/life balance.

you're right it is a choice after all, I'm just saying it will mean a trade off

Edited: 08/07/2014 at 08:46
08/07/2014 at 08:48
Pudge wrote (see)
 

I would question whether I would want to work for any organisation that overlooks those on flexible working arrangements, in favour of those 'toeing the line', when dishing out promotions etc.

If an employer can't see beyond an employees adherence to regular working hours, then they are missing a trick.  In my experience, happy employees tend to be good, productive employees.

 


Absolutely correct, but a happy employee who is a good and productive employee and who can man manage to work to the required company guidelines will always be of more value - fact of life

08/07/2014 at 08:50

What Pudge says.

My employer is pretty good like that although it's a bit patchy. It can depend on the management in certain areas and whether your face fits. Requests to work from home are met in some departments and frowned upon in others where it should be applied equally.

I have an arrangement I set up years ago, when we relocated, where I do the same hours but start and finish earlier. A couple of other people do it now too - and good for them!

Edited: 08/07/2014 at 08:50
Pudge    pirate
08/07/2014 at 08:52
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)
Pudge wrote (see)
 

I would question whether I would want to work for any organisation that overlooks those on flexible working arrangements, in favour of those 'toeing the line', when dishing out promotions etc.

If an employer can't see beyond an employees adherence to regular working hours, then they are missing a trick.  In my experience, happy employees tend to be good, productive employees.

 


Absolutely correct, but a happy employee who is a good and productive employee and who can man manage to work to the required company guidelines will always be of more value - fact of life

I'd say that's actually an anecdotal fact of life.

I maintain that it depends on the workplace (based on my own personal experience - thus also anecdotal!)

08/07/2014 at 09:59

I would love to reduce my hours so I was only working 4 days a week but fear it may go against me at the moment as we are going through a "standardisation"  procedure.   Would be more than happy to be flexible about this and work when busy and take time off when quiet. Will need to hang fire until things settle down.

08/07/2014 at 12:57

Many years ago, when I was on the verge of leaving my current employer partly because of stress and partly boredom, he came up with the idea of me working for four days a week but putting in 90 per cent of my full-time hours - ie 90 per cent of my full-time hours in four days. This made sense because I was already putting in longer hours each week to get the work in, but only on certain days. This allowed me to do my share of childcare on a Monday. I've been much more happy doing this, but recently the very person who thought up this compromise in order to keep me has become resentful of me having one extra day off a week (I would recommend it to anyone). This person is what you might call a workaholic and, like most of his ilk, really doesn't see why other people shouldn't follow his example and work at weekends, in the evening, while you're asleep and so on, regardless of whatever else is going on in your life (in retrospect, I can't see why he came up with the idea for my current working arrangements in the first place, but there we are - I must be so good he'd have done anything to keep me). Anyway, I now feel discriminated against in the workplace for various reasons I won't go into, but it's just steeled my determination to maintain the status quo. My feeling is that eventually someone gets pissed off with you because they think you're not pulling your weight (I do pull my weight, and a lot more). It's worth bearing in mind who you work for and with and what they might think before you do this, because there will be someone somewhere who wants to hold you back if you go for it.

08/07/2014 at 13:07

I'm pretty sure most workaholics lie on their death beds regretting it.

08/07/2014 at 13:08

some folks think giving you part time work  / working from home but demanding the same work output from you keeps you happy (for now) and ultimately mimicks a wage cut to help their bottom line.

Do it at your own peril - unless you are sure your office works this way you will find yourself marginalised due to misssing all the corridor chat etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/9892282/Yahoo-boss-bans-working-from-home.html

 

Ive also noticed a little gender asymmetry on flex/leaving work due to kids. If a bloke announces he has to go pick up his kid who just fell off a climbing frame he gets patted on the back for being a devoted dad. If a woman does the same colleagues (esp childless/single/female)  are more likely to say 'bitch. who does she think she is?'

On the other hand, people are much less likely to verbalise resentment about a woman taking maternity leave(though some of the above women do) but its understood that any man taking more than 2 weeks paternity leave would be committing career suicide. 

Edited: 08/07/2014 at 13:13
08/07/2014 at 13:09
As a father I am treated very differently from the mother in the workplace. I was given the standard 2 weeks off paternity which was fine and I knew about

I work random shifts 5/7 - get the same day off per week but that took nearly a year to sort out.. (After daughter was born) the only shift I get that works for me is a Friday before my weekend off (alternate) I work the early - oh I mean, it would be totally fair for me to work the late anyway before a day off (finishing 10pm) so hardly a favour -

Part of a 7 strong management team and it took a year to sort out a set day off work that one out

As for my work / life balance - my life revolves around what shifts they give me - the mother has set shifts yet work will not allow me to work (for example)

Early on a Tuesday and finish 3:30 when the mother would work 5:30-9:30

However the lady manager who has just gone off on her second maternity leave - was granted a 4/7 rota with a holiday allowance day used in the week and working the same shifts each time... Her partner works 9-5 Monday to Friday ...

Yep. If your face doesn't fit or not a senior manager different rules

With my day off always being a Wednesday and working alternate weekends I means I do 6 days in a row. Not a complaint about that tbh...

The other 6managers don't have children (bar one but he is my age so not like a 2 year old) yet they seem to get the 8-5 shifts most days
08/07/2014 at 13:16
I would like to add I'm not in an office job so I can't condense my workload although is generally clear for a time period what I have to do

It's just hugely frustrating the imbalance between staff who are mothers / fathers etc

And I'm not saying it's not mothers get it better here, just certain people.. There's mothers here who work 3 days a week the same shift every day and others who work 5/7 days full time whatever they are given

All the "needs of the business" quotes and "they were employed on that basis so can't be changed now" is tiring but most annoyingly contradicting


I could go on forever about how corrupt inside my workplace is
08/07/2014 at 13:22
Nayan what you said +1!!

I've heard it all word for word those situations here and the dad is the hero but the mother is a lazy xyz

Then the manager in question for me (who is a department manager)

Has one kid, a year off, back for say 3 months then off again for the second for another year.. Not contributing to the business yet it's me and another colleague being made (asked nicely, I'm not being forced) to take her workload without being paid for it because "we have to go the extra mile"
08/07/2014 at 13:27

On the other hand, the fight for decent maternity rights has been long and hard fought, and we should be glad women who have children get a good deal now. We should be asking why men don't get such a good deal when they have kids, not grumbling about the women who do.

08/07/2014 at 13:34

We should also be making sure that mat/pat and other leave is covered with extra staff, or those that do cover in addition to doing their own jobs are rewarded accordingly.

No-one should just be expected to take up the slack left by someone else's absence,  whatever the reason. I include long term sickness and career breaks in that.

08/07/2014 at 13:36

Work for yourself. That's what your employers do. To them you're just a means to an end and an awkward overhead. Don't kid yourself over status. To the employer you have zilch.

08/07/2014 at 13:45

It also depends on what industry/business you work in, what time constraints (if any) exist and how easy it is, simply, to do the work from home.
The problem with all workplace plans are that some are unworkable.

An IT project for instance may require, say 400hrs to be completed in, lets say , 10 weeks. This can be done anywhere as long as the 10 week deadline is reached. Accountants and engineers similarly can work from anywhere, just use the office for meetings (if at all)
Manufacturing, pacakging, food processing etc have strict delivery guidelines, workplace requirements and so on. Shifts yes, but these are difficult to make more flexible. Dare I bring in some public services (schools/hospitals) and the flexibility becomes less manageable. Always gets me why roadworks aren't done on a 24/7 basis to get projects done quicker. I'm sure the hours would suit some (i.e. fit in with partners/spouses).

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