Am I being too generous ? Or am I too tight ?

Charity Giving

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30/01/2013 at 16:40

Wow scroungers vs bankers, tough call, but at least the bankers pay more tax in than they take out so I'm afraid they edge it for me.

30/01/2013 at 16:50

So hypothetically Nick, you loose your job for whatever reason. No fault of your own, let's say, but maybe the company you work for goes bust, requires redundancies or whatever.

You're educated (obviously), but it's not easy to find work in your field.

So you go for something temporary and lower paid while you're looking.

You redundancy and savings start getting abit low and you've still not found a 'better' position in your field.

The company you took the temporary job in then makes some cut backs. You were last in, so the first to be layed off. And it was a short term temporary contract this time, so no redundancy.

Again, you're eager and looking for work, but you've been out of your original field of work for some time now and it's getting harder to compete. So you're now competing with other people looking for lower paid temporary jobs... but emplyers are claiming you're 'over qualified'.... it's becoming a vicious circle and harder to find work, even though you're clearly keen and eager.

You are now one of "These People" you mention.

I'm not denying the benefits system is flawed, and there are certainly people claiming far more than their fair share, but it's not all malingerers and scroungers.

 

30/01/2013 at 16:54

I don't have a problem with bankers (generally) or other highly paid people, including politicians for that matter, either.

But get annoyed whith the blanket definition of anyone on benefits as 'scroungers'.... it could happen to any of us given unfortunate circumstances.

30/01/2013 at 16:57

I don't see many hands in the air!

30/01/2013 at 17:05

I missed your question Wilkie, but Yes *sticks hand in air*

I'll qualify that by saying, not 'regular' in a direct debit kind of way, but in the sense of 'regular ad-hoc donations'... to tin-shakers, sponsor requests, charity shop donations (direct to local shops, rather than the bags that come round), ad-hoc donations direct to particular charities and so on.

Some humanitarian in nature and some not, so it includes animal charities, voluntary work with the National Trust and so on.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 17:06
30/01/2013 at 17:16

 

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

These people are not educated and don't understand what they are doing, they just do the best they can to get money by any means, and if we as a society give them £200 for sitting at home, why would they work for £250, if they have two children and can increase their money with a third they will do. We are sending out the wrong message, stop this crap and there will be ample money in the kitty. 

By the way I don't read papers at all.

This has to be the biggest pile of tosh I've read on the internet and that's going some. Plus taxation is not charity. The fact you view it as such says an awful lot about your character.

Wilkie - Raises hand. Although I personally think taxation should be increased and the State pay for these things and not have a requirement for charities to provide these services.

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 17:16
seren nos yn canu    pirate
30/01/2013 at 17:26

I do as well.........and agree with eggys post above

30/01/2013 at 17:30

Living on benefits with children is not equal to planning births to gain benefit. Plus you might discover kids ain't cheap, even if you are on benefit.

New year same issues. The rich and powerful who hoard the wealth turn the people against the poor and those that can't defend themselves as the problems of the common man.

 

 

30/01/2013 at 17:39
Wilkie wrote (see)

I don't see many hands in the air!

Sorry, been busy working to pay for all the scroungers....

Yes we have DDs for 5 charities/good causes a month (not vast amounts) plus occasional additional lump sums and I can't pass an RNLI collection tin without popping some money in.

30/01/2013 at 17:42

So those who work and train hard and fail to find employment at some point should be what, left to rot?

30/01/2013 at 17:47
kittenkat wrote (see)

My biggest issue is people on benefits being able to afford luxuries way above what other (2 adult working full time with 2 kids) households, can't.

Holidays, expensive race entry etc... How the fuck can they do that?

This is such Daily Mail reader hard of thinking type blurb.

Maybe because things are not in balance. Maybe The two workers waste money on some luxury items and then complain that the non-workers prioritised other things. I've seen people on the dole with Sky TV. That's a luxury. I've also seen them living off nothing but cheap junk fozen meals that most would turn their nose up at.The list can go on and on.

What do you suggest treating them like scum that can only use vouchers to buy goods we deem non-luxury?

30/01/2013 at 17:49
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

You miss the point, those who work hard ENOUGH and train hard ENOUGH do not find themselves in that situation 

No that's just simple minded Tory I'm alright, so those others just didn't work hard enough type thinking. Just because something happens or doesn't happen to you doen't make it fact.

30/01/2013 at 17:53

I agree with Kittenkat if I'm working and people living off my tax can afford those items then I'm sorry but thats gone beyond caring for their needs that is giving them luxuries at my expense, which is not on.

I also agree with Nick Windsor 4 work hard and you will be fine, hard times may come your way, although it is unlikely, if you think the world owes you a living,  watch out.

I do like your suggestion for vouchers though, that would stop the booze and fags, or do you think the unworking should be able to have those as well.

30/01/2013 at 17:57

So you want to treat the poor as scum and some sort of under class? I think we should provide them with the money and let them choose what they spend that on. A voucher concept is vile and repulsive.

It's like a Young Tory convention around these parts. I guess running must attract middle class idiots wanting to blame the worlds ills on the poor rather than directing the blame to those who it should be aimed at.

 

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 17:57
30/01/2013 at 17:58
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)
Eggyh73 wrote (see)
No that's just simple minded Tory I'm alright, so those others just didn't work hard enough type thinking. Just because something happens or doesn't happen to you doen't make it fact.

I'm sorry but you are not making sense now, and it seems anyone disagrees with you is either Tory or Daily mail, you are on the old Rock n Roll aren't you

Maybe you should have educated yourself to read plain old English. Secondly, no I'm not.

30/01/2013 at 18:23

Working hard and being educated has somewhat tenuous links with financial success.

 

30/01/2013 at 18:51

A voucher scheme sounds overly harsh. I don't think the state should be dictating what people spend their benefits on, and people's genuine needs will vary hugely.

But there was a piece on this morning's news about the fact that many people on benefits don't / can't have bank accounts, which brings with it quite a few disadvantages: They have to 'cash in' their benefits (meaning they suddenly have a lump sum of cash, which is difficult to manage in the way that you can with a bank account); and they can't benefit from cheaper online purchasing that you can with a bank account.

The suggestion was that they could instrad be given a card which could be used in a similar way to a debit card (presumably with some kind of 'statement'). This could be used to buy pretty much anything, but with some exceptions... so they couldn't use it to buy tobacco, alcohol, Sky TV etc.

That did seem quite a reasonable idea to me.

 

30/01/2013 at 18:54
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Julie, I am reasonably educated because I trained whilst working for most of my working life up to the age of 35 at my own expense, I have been in redundancy situations on 5 occasions and yes I've come out well, why? because I am ready, and I am a worker. No one gave it to me, I did it, I am proud of it, I am not lucky, privileged or anything other than hard working and frankly I don't support the idea that it is impossible to work. Sorry if you don't like that but the picture you paint will never be me.

Never say never....

So, what if you 'couldn't' work, through sudden illness or disability?

Another area of huge contention I know, and I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming disability benefit who really shouldn't be.... but the current flawed system surely doesn't mean there should be no system at all?

 

 

 

cougie    pirate
30/01/2013 at 19:01
What would happen Nick if you fell whilst running - and broke both your arms.
Would you be able to work ? Would your boss think less of you the next time the axe comes round ?
Hard work accounts for a lot - but some times shit happens.
30/01/2013 at 21:23

Wilikie - I didn't reply because I'd already posted details earlier in the thread but yes, I do if it needs reiterating.

And Cougie's point is valid. This is what has happened to many people in the US because the healthcare system has sapped their savings. They've had a serious illness, their healthcare hasn't covered it and they basically have to cough up for life-saving treatment.

It's beginning to happen in Britain because the cost of utilities and other essentials are constantly rising above the rate of inflation, eroding incomes while wages are stagnant.

And, while I'm here:

Cost to UK economy of tax avoidance: £32bn

Cost to UK economy of the banking crisis: nobody actually knows but one figure estimates £850 billion.

Cost to UK economy of benefit scrounging/fraud: £1.2bn

Does that put things into perspective for you Nick?

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 21:35
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