Am I being too generous ? Or am I too tight ?

Charity Giving

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30/01/2013 at 17:56
Eggyh73 wrote (see)
No that's just simple minded Tory I'm alright, so those others just didn't work hard enough type thinking. Just because something happens or doesn't happen to you doen't make it fact.

I'm sorry but you are not making sense now, and it seems anyone disagrees with you is either Tory or Daily mail, you are on the old Rock n Roll aren't you

30/01/2013 at 17:57

So you want to treat the poor as scum and some sort of under class? I think we should provide them with the money and let them choose what they spend that on. A voucher concept is vile and repulsive.

It's like a Young Tory convention around these parts. I guess running must attract middle class idiots wanting to blame the worlds ills on the poor rather than directing the blame to those who it should be aimed at.


Edited: 30/01/2013 at 17:57
30/01/2013 at 17:58
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)
Eggyh73 wrote (see)
No that's just simple minded Tory I'm alright, so those others just didn't work hard enough type thinking. Just because something happens or doesn't happen to you doen't make it fact.

I'm sorry but you are not making sense now, and it seems anyone disagrees with you is either Tory or Daily mail, you are on the old Rock n Roll aren't you

Maybe you should have educated yourself to read plain old English. Secondly, no I'm not.

30/01/2013 at 18:23

Working hard and being educated has somewhat tenuous links with financial success.


30/01/2013 at 18:51

A voucher scheme sounds overly harsh. I don't think the state should be dictating what people spend their benefits on, and people's genuine needs will vary hugely.

But there was a piece on this morning's news about the fact that many people on benefits don't / can't have bank accounts, which brings with it quite a few disadvantages: They have to 'cash in' their benefits (meaning they suddenly have a lump sum of cash, which is difficult to manage in the way that you can with a bank account); and they can't benefit from cheaper online purchasing that you can with a bank account.

The suggestion was that they could instrad be given a card which could be used in a similar way to a debit card (presumably with some kind of 'statement'). This could be used to buy pretty much anything, but with some exceptions... so they couldn't use it to buy tobacco, alcohol, Sky TV etc.

That did seem quite a reasonable idea to me.


30/01/2013 at 18:54
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Julie, I am reasonably educated because I trained whilst working for most of my working life up to the age of 35 at my own expense, I have been in redundancy situations on 5 occasions and yes I've come out well, why? because I am ready, and I am a worker. No one gave it to me, I did it, I am proud of it, I am not lucky, privileged or anything other than hard working and frankly I don't support the idea that it is impossible to work. Sorry if you don't like that but the picture you paint will never be me.

Never say never....

So, what if you 'couldn't' work, through sudden illness or disability?

Another area of huge contention I know, and I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming disability benefit who really shouldn't be.... but the current flawed system surely doesn't mean there should be no system at all?




cougie    pirate
30/01/2013 at 19:01
What would happen Nick if you fell whilst running - and broke both your arms.
Would you be able to work ? Would your boss think less of you the next time the axe comes round ?
Hard work accounts for a lot - but some times shit happens.
30/01/2013 at 21:23

Wilikie - I didn't reply because I'd already posted details earlier in the thread but yes, I do if it needs reiterating.

And Cougie's point is valid. This is what has happened to many people in the US because the healthcare system has sapped their savings. They've had a serious illness, their healthcare hasn't covered it and they basically have to cough up for life-saving treatment.

It's beginning to happen in Britain because the cost of utilities and other essentials are constantly rising above the rate of inflation, eroding incomes while wages are stagnant.

And, while I'm here:

Cost to UK economy of tax avoidance: £32bn

Cost to UK economy of the banking crisis: nobody actually knows but one figure estimates £850 billion.

Cost to UK economy of benefit scrounging/fraud: £1.2bn

Does that put things into perspective for you Nick?

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 21:35
30/01/2013 at 22:06

you can prove anything with facts

cougie    pirate
30/01/2013 at 22:32
Yeah bloody facts getting in the way of a good old rant. Grrr...
30/01/2013 at 22:45
Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

You miss the point, those who work hard ENOUGH and train hard ENOUGH do not find themselves in that situation 

This is complete nonsense and twaddle. there is no factual basis behind that statement at all.

Very many people who work hard and train hard find themselves in positions of redundancy, unemployment, reduced income all the time for all manner of reasons, often totally out of their control.

I've worked in industries which have gone through boom and bust. It doesn't matter how hard you work or how much training you do, if the area of your employment or expertise crashes it's very easy to find yourself out of work, competing for only a few jobs with other highly qualified and skilled individuals. That's only one small example - retrain of course but that takes time and money. use what skills you have to move into another field of work but that often means starting at a lower pay grade and retraining.
You don't know how redundancy / unemployment / financial worries will affect any given individual, some people may take it as a challenge, others may take it as a knock and it destroy their self worth. You can't make swinging assumptions based on your own character and experience.

Oh just as Cougie says, shit happens and I'm wading in the stuff up to my ass.

30/01/2013 at 22:45

But it's ok cos I'm going to come out smelling of roses so sod everyone else. I'm happy.

cougie    pirate
30/01/2013 at 23:06
Hope it all works out for you mrs h-m !
31/01/2013 at 05:58

For the record

Cougie if I broke both arms I would need time off, but my years of work without any sick leave would stand me in good stead, I am able to have 13 weeks full pay due to this so I should be OK. My training also means I am reasonably well equipped to work from home, or should I need to find alternative employment.

Yes I do wnat a situation where people on benefits are given vouchers, it would ensure they spend where necessary on food and essentials for the family and keep them off the online bingo, out of the bookies, cut down on their "fags and beer" luxury for a non worker should be  atraining course.

Eggy I don't read the daily mail or listen to tory MPs, I am proud of my working class and emphasise the working. so today I'll be up and about again in work from this ungodly hour while you lie there waiting for Jeremy Kyle, you are typical of the type that of person and thinking that has brought us into this mess, holier than thou losers.

31/01/2013 at 08:36

I thought we'd already established that Eggy is not unemployed -or have you actually swapped your blinkers for a blindfold this morning? 

Your argument is one of the worst I've ever seen, based on something you've pulled out of your head and not based on any facts whatsoever. I suggest to you that's its a case of hating what you most fear i.e. that having faced redundancy several times you know how close you might have come to other people thinking that way about YOU. It's great that it gave you the drive to go out and find work. It isn't great that it stripped you of your empathy and clouded any sensible reasoning. 

Perhaps your real angst shuld be towards companies like Tesco who make huge profits but still have employees that need propping up by the taxpayer because they don't earn a living wage. The boss, meanwhile, earns something like 7m annually in pay and bonuses.

Oh and you do realise that the term "Daily Mail Reader" can be  metaphorical as well as literal don't you?

Edited: 31/01/2013 at 08:37
31/01/2013 at 09:06

I don't make regular charity donations, but do make occasional one off ones (after a disaster for example).

However, I work in the charity sector and hence earn about £10-15k less that I'd get for a similar job in the commercial sector. I also regularly volunteer my time.

I think of this as as good as a donation, but occasionally feel that maybe I should do more.

31/01/2013 at 09:29

Good point, it is maybe something that we should fear and therefore something we should all be prepared for. I have been in the redundancy siuation 5 times and 5 times I have taken full advantage, a large pay packet and a new job to go to. On the first occasion I took a job that paid me the same, I then realised it is not to be feared, as every other occasion has resulted in an increase. Maybe it's the way we see things, I see redundancy as an opportunity not a crisis, I have gone on to coach others through redundancy and the ones who grasp the opportunity generally are the positive ones who come up smelling of roses, then again most things to me seem like that. If you behave positive you will generally fare better.

cougie    pirate
31/01/2013 at 10:08
Watch out for that large pay packet - makes you expensive to the company.
I know some companies cut costs by taking out the expensive pay grades and throw their workload down to the work level below.
They may not be as good or as efficient - but they are cheaper so that's someone target ticked off.
31/01/2013 at 10:31

Colin McLaughlin wrote (see)
I gave about 12 doses of blood in my younger days but then stopped giving because I felt I should be paid for it. (Yes, I know it would attract the wrong sort of people, but nonetheless the NHS pays for everything else. Why should they get blood free?)

I read this yesterday, but couldn't reply becauase of the restrictions at work but felt I had to ask you Colin what do you mean by "The wrong sort of people?"

Are you trying to say that blood from people who would want paying is of lesser quality?







31/01/2013 at 11:17

I don't think you're right in assuming that, it raises another point though, if I give blood and it used on NHS patients that's fine and to be expected, if I give blood and it goes to private medicine and is used in an operation where the patient or his insurance company will be charged, is it morally correct to charge for blood I have given free and in good faith.



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