Believing in God

or not

201 to 220 of 252 messages
15/10/2012 at 13:32

Belief in anything requires us to accept some things without proof doesn't it ?  That includes God, the Big Bang or that the coffee I'm drinking actually exists.  

15/10/2012 at 14:00

@popsider - I guess so, yes, but it comes down to whether there's enough evidence to convince you one way or the other.  When it comes down to monkeys vs God, the balance is clearly on the side of monkeys.

15/10/2012 at 14:03

Interesting discussion, guys, but I don't think you'll ever prove the existence or non-existence of God. Judging from my own experiences I am convinced that He is real. However, I can appreciate that someone who has suffered greatly would disagree and I wouldn't want to belittle what they have or are going through. I would say though that I believe God loves each one of us and longs for us to love him in return, but he gives us a choice as to how we live our lives. That freewill then opens up the possibility of pain, suffering and evil. I therefore openly admit that I am part of the problem. In spite of the evil within me, I believe that God chose to become one of us and take on that pain and suffering and ultimately death for himself. This God-man, Jesus, was raised to life from the dead and offers us the possibility of forgiveness and healing and can start to deal with the evil within me. Yes, it sounds crazy. No, I don't have all, or in fact many of, the answers, but what I am experiencing is just amazing and I wouldn't want to live without him. Then again, you may think that I am merely self-deluded and that's fine. After all, I've just said that God gives us a choice, so I am not going to try and force anyone into any particular belief!

15/10/2012 at 14:11

@Gul Darr - you can't prove the existence of anything - nothing at all.  All you can do is prove something beyond reasonable doubt.  Got any evidence to support the existence of God? What about what was here before 4000BC?

15/10/2012 at 14:14
Gul Darr wrote (see)

Interesting discussion, guys, but I don't think you'll ever prove the existence or non-existence of God. Judging from my own experiences I am convinced that He is real. However, I can appreciate that someone who has suffered greatly would disagree and I wouldn't want to belittle what they have or are going through. I would say though that I believe God loves each one of us and longs for us to love him in return, but he gives us a choice as to how we live our lives. That freewill then opens up the possibility of pain, suffering and evil. I therefore openly admit that I am part of the problem. In spite of the evil within me, I believe that God chose to become one of us and take on that pain and suffering and ultimately death for himself. This God-man, Jesus, was raised to life from the dead and offers us the possibility of forgiveness and healing and can start to deal with the evil within me. Yes, it sounds crazy. No, I don't have all, or in fact many of, the answers, but what I am experiencing is just amazing and I wouldn't want to live without him. Then again, you may think that I am merely self-deluded and that's fine. After all, I've just said that God gives us a choice, so I am not going to try and force anyone into any particular belief!

Easy to prove non existance. No evidence of existance for a start. You're wrong about some of us thinking you are self delusional, the evidence indicates that we know you are self delusional. Its not fine though if you expect rational people to take anything you say seriously at all. 

15/10/2012 at 14:26
RicF wrote (see)
 

Easy to prove non existance. No evidence of existance for a start.

Lack of evidence of existence isn't proof of non-existence.

15/10/2012 at 14:28

Intermanaut - I guess you are implying that I think the universe is only 6000 years old? I don't think that Genesis is a literal account of creation; more of a why than a how. So I don't have a problem with the universe being billions of years old or however long it might be.

RicF -  I don't accept that no evidence of existence is a proof of non-existence, but I will admit that a lack of evidence might give you grounds to make it a reasonable assumption. But it remains an assumption or theory, however reasonable it might be. My reasons for faith and belief in God are based on personal experience and I can not reasonably expect you to accept that as proof, but I could start with by saying that my wife had a vision of me years before we met and God asked her to lead me to him and I would be her husband. Obviously you are not going to take anything at all I say seriously now and I am not surprised.

Edited: 15/10/2012 at 14:29
15/10/2012 at 14:41
PhilPub wrote (see)
RicF wrote (see)
 

Easy to prove non existance. No evidence of existance for a start.

Lack of evidence of existence isn't proof of non-existence.

Indeed, you're correct. A lazy comment. Can't be proved, nearest we can go would be unlikely and that view would only be based on current knowledge. 

Dare I say, that if God was proven to exist, wouldn't that be something?, scary.

Edited: 15/10/2012 at 14:46
15/10/2012 at 14:53

@Gul - see that's the kind of thing that made me run screaming from the church in the first place.

The kind of thinking that says god loves us so much he would direct a husband and wife together, but he doesn't love humanity enough to stop the horrendous shit that goes on every day.

Free will - nope - what a cop out that is.

15/10/2012 at 15:02

@Gul - good for you and your believes. 

GymAddict wrote (see)

but he doesn't love humanity enough to stop the horrendous shit that goes on every day.

 

If God doesnt exist or care about humanity, why doesnt humanity sort out the shit that they themselves have created ? 

@Ric - what would you accept as proof that God does exist ?

 

 

15/10/2012 at 15:22

Evidence. But then there's not one jot of evidence of Aliens from another planet either and people believe they are real also.

15/10/2012 at 15:27
GymAddict wrote (see)

@Gul - see that's the kind of thing that made me run screaming from the church in the first place.

The kind of thinking that says god loves us so much he would direct a husband and wife together, but he doesn't love humanity enough to stop the horrendous shit that goes on every day.

Free will - nope - what a cop out that is.

Where are like buttons when you need them? Like.

15/10/2012 at 15:52

GymAddict - I can't give you an answer to that and I'm sorry that you left screaming. There are plenty of times when I feel like screaming at God too and asking why, but just asking him those questions can strangely draw me closer to him. No point in not being honest.
RicF - as far as I know, I've never met an alien

15/10/2012 at 15:56
carterusm wrote (see)

@Gul - good for you and your believes. 

GymAddict wrote (see)

but he doesn't love humanity enough to stop the horrendous shit that goes on every day.

 

If God doesnt exist or care about humanity, why doesnt humanity sort out the shit that they themselves have created ? 

A lot of the people involved in humanity are trying, very hard, to sort the shit out themselves.  Unfortunately, a lot of that shit has been created by people in the name of religion.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."

15/10/2012 at 16:13

There's an interesting parallel between belief in God and belief in aliens.  (I think so anyway!)  I happen to "believe" there's a reasonable chance that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, because it's so feckin' big and there's a chance that there is another star somewhere that happens to have a planet in orbit in its inhabitable zone.  It also seems reasonable to suggest there is a chance that life-forms exist which are way more intelligent than us, possibly beyond our imaginations, but we'll never ever know about them because they like us are constrained by the laws of physics, and even if they knew or guessed that we existed, wouldn't physically be able to get a signal to us, much less pop round to say hello, because of the speed at which our places in the universe are moving apart.

...I can't remember where I was going with this, but I need a cuppa tea.  Hang on...

15/10/2012 at 16:13

Intermanaut - I am ashamed and appalled by many things that have been done in the name of "religion". Jesus quite clearly taught that we should love our enemies and that seems totally opposed to things that have been done in his name. And actually, he was very scathing of the behaviour of some of the "religious" people of his own day.
Unfortunately, I don't think humanity will be able to sort itself out on its own. I don't believe that I can't even sort out my own mess without God's help and that only he could help me to love people regardless of how they treat me.

15/10/2012 at 16:22

Phil – Do you think we can ever prove that something doesn’t exist?  

Gul – What is it that causes you to believe then? You state that what you say sounds crazy but believe it nonetheless. It seems an odd stance to take.

Internmanaut– I like Steven Weinberg but I don’t really go with him on that quote. Good people are perfectly capable of evil whether religion is present or not.

15/10/2012 at 16:28

@Mr Viper - good people are, by very definition, incapable of evil.

15/10/2012 at 16:43

Not true, no one is incapable of evil. Good people try to do good, but what is good for one person can be another man's evil.

Question - if you were able to manage time travel would you go back to kill Adolf Hitler? and although this could be described as good for many it would be an act of evil to his relatives.

15/10/2012 at 16:45

Intermanaut - So you don’t agree with the quote you posted? Anyway I disagree with what you say. I think we are all capable or good and all capable of evil. That is simply part of what it is to be human. Though again we are raising the question as to what good and evil actually mean. Or whether they actually mean anything at all.

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