Believing in God

or not

21 to 40 of 265 messages
07/10/2012 at 20:37
My view of the universe is based on Newtonian physics; this is what I was taught at school and, to an extent, I understand it. However science (relativity, string theory etc) has 'proven' that this view is incorrect.

Does this make me an uneducated crackpot?
IronCat5    pirate
07/10/2012 at 20:54

I'm an engineer. QED.

I was forced in to Sunday school, and left as soon as I had the chance. That said I've met some interesting religionista in the past. Our local vicar was an archaeologist before, and an RAF padre who was an ex-Vulcan pilot. He never did explain what caused the career change.

 

07/10/2012 at 21:01
Stevie G . wrote (see)

Personally I think it's a pretty empty existence to choose to believe that in effect we're here by accident, that a "Big bang" happened, and that we've managed to go from pond life to humans.

I always find it a little bit sad that religious people feel that their lives would be empty without believing in some kind of superior being.

07/10/2012 at 21:34

Interesting one (though I'm sure we've done it before)

I'm an atheist, no belief in a personal God or an afterlife

but I am less mystified by religious people than I am by those who seemed to be filled with an overwhelming anger about religion. I don't really mind if people are religious.

From what I've seen, being religious is really more like something you DO, rather than something you believe.

For what it's worth, I've just finished reading Thinking, Fast and Slow by Kahneman, a fascinating book by a Nobel prize winning psychologist, and if you think humans are logical creatures I recommend you to read it.  As far as I'm concerned, almost nothing people think, do, believe, or say, is the result of being "logical".

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 21:35
07/10/2012 at 21:40
Stevie G . wrote (see)

Personally I think it's a pretty empty existence to choose to believe that in effect we're here by accident

[...]

So best hope you chose correctly


That's another interesting thing: I don't feel I have any choice about what I believe.

I don't think I could "choose" to be religious

Anyone think they chose what they believe and could decide to believe the opposite if they wanted?

07/10/2012 at 22:01

MikeFrog, I don't mind if people are religious either, but I think the problem IS that it is something people do. The belief I have no issue with. I think the reason there is a lot of anger about religion is a) there is often a religious element to war/conflict/terrorism, b) religious institutions seem to hold too much power when it comes to things like government policy, c) some religious people seem to think they have a divine right to inflict their views on other people. If it was just a personal thing and everyone got on with it on their own terms, I'd have no problem with it either. Unfortunately there are still many religious people out there who will fight tooth and nail, to pick just two recent examples, to deny people in immense and terminal pain the right to a peaceful and dignified death, or to deny couples of the same sex the same rights as straight couples. And until they stop doing things like that, I'll get a little bit angry about it!

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 22:02
07/10/2012 at 22:25

Yeah, true. Fortunately that seems to be on the wane.

07/10/2012 at 22:41

Euthanasia is a very tricky one, much debated. Who has the right to decide a life isn't worth living?  What about cases where people have made miraculous recoveries? What if relatives who stand to gain are able to cast the deciding vote?

If you start, where do you stop? Handicaps? Old people? Other "undesirables"? It can start to morph into something altogether more sinister.

I think the natural reaction of churches will always be pro life.

 

 

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 22:49
07/10/2012 at 22:52

Stevie, who has the right to decide a life isn't worth living? Erm, maybe the person living that life? They've certainly got more right than someone trying to inflict their own religious views on a situation they know nothing about. I think to suggest it would lead to eugenics is far-fetched - we're talking about clear cases where the individual themselves has had a terminal condition and has clearly wanted to end their suffering.

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 22:55
07/10/2012 at 22:54

You seem to be basing things on the one high profile case in the news recently.

What if the person is in a coma, or is otherwise not able to give consent? There's been cases of people coming out of comas years on. Imagine if they'd just been wiped out straight away.

Or a mentally and physically handicapped child. I presume you'd just judge them as not having any quality of life either?

PS in your example the person can go to Switzerland, which seems to have no problem with legalised euthanasia.

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 22:56
07/10/2012 at 22:56

Not at all Stevie, I'm talking about when the person themselves has a choice.

07/10/2012 at 22:57

It is a pretty horrible scenario.

The choice of living in pain, versus dying and to the atheist's mind, that being it.

kittenkat    pirate
08/10/2012 at 06:40

I am pro euthanasia (in the right circumstances), I see my life and my body belonging to me.

kittenkat    pirate
08/10/2012 at 06:42
Stevie G . wrote (see)

It is a pretty horrible scenario.

The choice of living in pain, versus dying and to the atheist's mind, that being it.

Why assume that all athiests think that's it?

08/10/2012 at 08:47
Stevie G . wrote (see)

Euthanasia is a very tricky one, much debated. Who has the right to decide a life isn't worth living?  What about cases where people have made miraculous recoveries? What if relatives who stand to gain are able to cast the deciding vote?

If you start, where do you stop? Handicaps? Old people? Other "undesirables"? It can start to morph into something altogether more sinister.

I think the natural reaction of churches will always be pro life.

 

 

I don't know about euthenasia, but the 'yoof' of Nottingham are terrible. 

08/10/2012 at 11:04

Arnaud himself was appointed as military leader of the crusaders during the first stages of the war in 1209. This was a perfectly normal occurrence at this time, but Arnaud's love of terror and killing was perhaps above average, even for a senior churchman. It was he who was responsible for the mass burning alive of "many heretics and many fair women" at Casseneuil", for the massacre at Béziers, where some 20,000 men, women and children were killed in an "exercise of Christian charity", and for the immortal words "Kill them all. God will know his own".

Churches, pro life, yea always.

Edited: 08/10/2012 at 11:07
08/10/2012 at 11:41

In a bookshop I like to move The Bible to the fiction section.. to me that's where it belongs.

Tommygun2    pirate
08/10/2012 at 12:00

http://s4.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/175343/gallery/cd270m.jpg?width=350

This is where I stand on the issue, might just get the t-shirt

 


 

JvR
08/10/2012 at 12:33
kittenkat wrote (see)

What is the deciding factor that influences belief or non belief?

Personality, upbringing, trauma, illness?

What do you think?

For me it started as upbringing. I went to Sunday school when I was very young but stopped when the place I went to close down, it was a community centre I think. I then returned to the church in my early teens when I had to attend church parade with the scout group I went to. After attending a few services I started to go every week because I enjoyed it. Eventually I made the decision to be confirmed when I was 16.

In my early 20s I drifted away from the church due to moving away from home to start work and never getting around to finding a church where I felt comfortable.

In 2000 I returned to the church as we wanted to get my son christened after he was diagnosed with leukaemia when he was 2. We were lucky to find an amazing church with a really friendly and helpful congregation who supported us so much through a long illness. In a way our church is like an extended family and support network as we all look out for each other.
As a Christian I've helped out both within the church I go to, taught junior church, been on the parish church council. I also spent time as a Street Pastor, providing help and assistance to people on a Saturday night when they are out clubbing.

For me my beliefs are a source of strength and comfort in really difficult times.

08/10/2012 at 12:45

So, what's God got to do with that?

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