Believing in God

Intermanaut wrote (see)

kittenkat wrote (see)

Only if evolution stopped?

No.  There's more to it that just evolution.  For example, the more we learn about physics, especially small things, the more we find that needs more investigation.

Go see my new thread --------

Intermanaut wrote (see)

There's a metric fuck-tonne of science

 

Is that an official SI unit?

sarah the bookworm wrote (see)

The Doctor is real. I saw him in Stratford upon Avon pretending to be Hamlet *nods wisely*

Santa's real too.

I saw him with my own eyes, at the North pole a couple of years ago.

He wasn't playing Hamlet though.

Sorry to disappoint you all but I do not believe in fairies. I believe in a being that goes beyond anything we can physically get our heads round. Thats the one reason why Jesus existed, so humans could get a grip of God in a form we can understand. I believe he died and was resurrected. Do I mean physically or spiritually? I am still deciding. So fairies do not crop up in that. Its pretty simple- Their is something out there bigger and more important than us that started all this and a bloke happens to have bought the word of God to us-died and came back to be seen by 500 individuals.

I believe in something after all this because of that God makes perfect sense to me.

TheVicar wrote (see)

 Its pretty simple- Their is something out there bigger and more important than us that started all this and a bloke happens to have bought the word of God to us-died and came back to be seen by 500 individuals.

 

That's what you believe.  It is not a fact.  I would argue that there isn't, and he didn't.

The bloke could simply have been making observations and come up with a good idea. The David Blaine of his time. Unlike the sceptics of today, his ilk had no idea about much so would believe anything. He could have been lying through his teeth. He could have been suffering with a brain disorder, the prophets were clearly hallucinating. The stuff about God making us in his own image is pure human arrogance. Just a man-made comfort that hides the fact that we really are totally meaningless. We just exist.

The Vicar did not say he believed every word on the Bible and every thing a prophet said........

It is about still reading ,thinking and looking at all the parts of the bible..which is keeping an open mind about things.whilst still believing in one fundamental principle.......That there is something bigger out there that is spiritual and that can effect peoples lives...

Nurse Ratched wrote (see)

 

That's what you believe.  It is not a fact.  I would argue that there isn't, and he didn't.

He prefaced every other sentence with "I believe".  Discussions would be pretty tedious to read if you had to say I believe or "in my opinion" every time you wrote a sentence which reads as a statement of fact.

This might help.

Vicar - from our previous discussions I gathered that you are 1) in the process of becoming a vicar and 2) A fairly recent convert to Christianity.

I also get the impression that you had a conversion event - i.e. something specific happened to convince you of the reality of god.  Great - however your arguments for belief do come across quite earnest and excited as if you have just discovered this 'wonderful thing' and you want to tell us all about it.  Problem is, been there - got the t-shirt - realised it was all smoke and mirrors.    I think I said this to you in the other thread but if you need to say 'I believe' in any argument - then it's going to fail to convince. Doubly so if you bring the bible into it - because those of us who are non-believers think of the bible as just so many stories, collected in such a way as to increase the political power of the ruling churchmen of the time.

Unfortunately 'I Believe' is what Religion is all about.  I cannot convince you of my feelings because they are my feelings. My feelings are something exists. I can only tell you about my feelings, the same as any other Christian can do. Their is no way I can sit here and convince you God exists and their is no way anybody can sit their and tell me he doesn't and as long as that happens we will aimlessly argue and never agree Its so individualistic that what works for one does not work for another. I know a lady who when asked a question will sit there and say one second, she will go quiet for a while then come back and say 'I have just had a chat with God and this is what I think' I think shes as nutty as squirrel s**t but shes happy enough. Sitting in Church on a Sunday she is there and sat next to her is an old boy who thinks completely different about it all. The great thing about Christianity is that if you are opened minded you will always find something on your level, wherever you are on your journey.

You are making the assumption that the journey has anything whatsoever to do with Christianity.

Did anyone see this on Monday?  It was quite interesting, but I came away from it with the reinforced belief that the believers are, while entitled to believe in God (and I would defend their right to hold that belief), mental, short-sighted, stubborn, and not particularly bright.

Indeed I am because I am a Christian if I was an Atheist then i'd be taking that journey but I am not

The whole creationist idea is falling flat on its face aswe speak give it 10 years and it will be gone. Just another fad

@TheVicar - so, you're not a Creationist.  What's your take on the Old Testament?

Honestly- My take is its an incredible piece of literature that was written by some pretty amazing people. What I call historical events I believe happened IE Exodus and the making of Israel as this can be backed up with Archaeology and historians at the time etc. I think the floods and plagues etc were just that. But at the time these people believed it to be God. Adam and Eve was also exactly that, 3000 years ago these people did not have any idea where they came from so this story came into being. If you look back at many lost or ancient religions it pretty much ties in with all of what they believed too. But Adam and Eve isn' too far from the truth-we must have come into being as a man and a woman-we came from dust (the earth we live in) So its not all rubbish. As a Christian and a teacher of said subject, I believe the OT is a tool for us today to look upon and see that whatever troubles we have today have already happened to somebody else and we can gain strength from seeing the outcome play out in the OT. Yes some of its horrific, no different to the world around us today, did God cause any of it? who knows. As a CofE Priest we are told when going through the discernment process, that when reading the Bible and deciphering the meanings we should bring into to the equation, tradition and reason. Reason is a biggy, it doesn't mean we have to sit their and be completely daft about it and say oh Adam and Eve existed even though it has been proven as an allegory. I bring what I know about the world today and apply it to what I read. Now all of you will say thats picking the bits that you want to believe and not picking the bits that are difficult. Thats when tradition comes into it. You can see what has been written and said about the subject before by the thousands of people who have talked and studied whatever subject it is you're looking at. From that you can make an informed choice. You have to bring your own knowledge and thoughts to reading it. Everybody will see it differently. If you asked 2 people to tell you what happened at a football match it will be different but the score will always be the same.

TheVicar wrote (see)

The whole creationist idea is falling flat on its face aswe speak give it 10 years and it will be gone. Just another fad

seems to be still growing in the US though sadly.  

So's obesity Sorry couldn't help it. Yes the main reason is the Septic's tend to love fast easy to grasp info. Or fast food, or quick convinient ideas and thoughts, they like a fad. It's pretty much hit a wall in this country and many other countries around the world. In CofE circles if you said the world was made 6000 years ago you will get a strange look and be asked to move on.