Believing in God

or not

81 to 100 of 252 messages
LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:17

I am not terribly popular at the moment for NOT forcing my teenage girls into our church youth groups. My eldest is VERY intelligent and is currently formulating her own opinions about the world around her and it HAS occurred to her to question her belief in God, even though she's been through the Sunday school system and has been brought up in a church environment.

She initially hid her thoughts from us, thinking we would be annoyed or disappointed with her. She had NO IDEA that at some point in our lives we ALL have to accept or reject things and this might mean NOT agreeing with how your parents raised you. I see a lot of contributors on here did precisely that. They HAVE thought it through and decided it's not for them. That's their business and I respect them for it.

Do I want my children to remain in the Christian faith? Absolutely and I pray they do? Would I try to make them? Not in a million years. That's a fatally flawed plan. At the same age I wasn't ready to make my mind up either. Why should they be?

They still go on Sunday morning and they don't object to that but I FEEL pressure from group leaders, as if I'm failing as a parent if they're not banging a tambourine and singing in the street outside the Co-op.

Tough.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:18

FB - we're good. I'm not offended by what you said. As I said earlier, I AGREE with what you say.

10/10/2012 at 12:29

@TheVicar - thanks for such a comprehensive answer.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:30

I've climbed off the soapbox now. As you were

10/10/2012 at 12:31

I agree. Their are some religious people out there who are a disgrace. We always hear about them as its good news, something to write about. I try not to force my ideas, I say what I believe and what i feel. As I said before me saying anything isn't going to change anybody so I don't waste my time. My 2 year old daughter isn't Baptised and I wasn't even married in Church. I choose what I want to do. I have had some woman in my church slating me for not baptising my daughter and you just think really is this what Jesus is all about?  Realistically all Christians are flawed massively. I know I am. I get pissed off I shout. I get angry at people. I drive like a loon sometimes;-). I find people in my congregation abhorrent. I dislike people. We are all human. Difference is I accept that. I'll do whats best for me if it annoys God then he can suck my b""ls. He shouldn't have let me get into the position I am in and do what I am doing, only messing. But I do not get on peoples cases, everything is up to the individual. If somebody says why isn't your daughter baptised I will tell them, but if they have a go i'll tell them to get a life and do one. So basically Liverbird if people have a dig because your little un's arn't going to Church, tell them tough s""t and get alife I cannot stand people forcing beliefs and thoughts onto other people when they need to look at themselves. As my mate Jesus says Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye

10/10/2012 at 12:32

Intermanaut- I quite enjoy all this

10/10/2012 at 12:33
TheVicar wrote (see)

 if it annoys God then he can suck my b""ls.

Well, he is omnipotent I suppose...

10/10/2012 at 12:36

LB, I have no problem with saying that Islam and Judaism is wrong too and I'm extremely wary if I see a bloke with a big beard carrying a rucksack, much the same as I was seeing a christrian leaving an unattended hold all in the 70/80's.

I really couldn't care less what someone believes, it's fine, good or them, I personally just find it perplexing that with absolutely no evidence what so ever anyone could believe there is a god (it doesn't deseve a capital).

Gym addict has summed up my thoughts many times in this and other threads, about religion being a form of control and power, that's all it is. And that's what's sad, organised religion, if a weak minded person was being preyed on and taken advantage of, say by cow boy work men you'd want the authorities to crack down on them, well that's how I see religion when they ask for donations.

...And really, if someone I don't know, who's opinion is of no consequence to my life thinks i'm bigoted, so what? Sticks and stones..

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:38

WHOSE opinion, Lardarse. You were doing alright up until that point.

10/10/2012 at 12:39

Phil thats very good philosophy of theology right there

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:43
TheVicar wrote (see)

 So basically Liverbird if people have a dig because your little un's arn't going to Church, tell them tough s""t and get alife I cannot stand people forcing beliefs and thoughts onto other people when they need to look at themselves. As my mate Jesus says Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye

What I find most telling is that MY kids come back from these youth groups (when they DO go) and tell me that the children of the leaders are openly lying to their parents about things they believe to appease them! It's like there's a big elephant in the room. I feel like saying "at least my girls have the balls to tell the truth about what they think and feel"

10/10/2012 at 12:44
lardarse wrote (see)

I really couldn't care less what someone believes, it's fine, good or them, I personally just find it perplexing that with absolutely no evidence what so ever anyone could believe there is a god (it doesn't deseve a capital).

 

No evidence ? There are stories in the bible that provide evidence ? Or were you expecting Jesus to set up a Facebook account or post some videos on YouTube ?
10/10/2012 at 12:47

LA. If you came to my church on Sunday you will see no control or power. The people attend to worship God then sod off after a cuppa. They are not being preyed on at all. They are intelligent people who make up their own minds. I'm not dragging them there out of bed in the morning saying come or you are going to hell. These are your next door neighbours, people you work with. This is Christian religion on the streets of England today. We take a collection yes. Usually 80-90 people turn up and we make about 80-90 quid. A quid a head and they get a cuppa out of that. I think its value for money Coffee is a bit cheap mind. I understand what you mean is its used in other countries to make the powerful more powerful and the richer richer. IE these televangelists in America. But grass roots Christianity in the country we all live in is not guided that way whatsoever. It gives the old dears who are widowed to meet with some friends. It gives lonely people a chance to mix with others. OR it gives extremely normal people the chance to worship God in a safe place with people they know and love.

10/10/2012 at 12:48

I was brought up to believe in evolution and Darwinism. Then the creationists took over my school, and I realized I'd have to adapt to survive.

10/10/2012 at 12:52

LB you are doing the right thing. They will choose their own paths. If God is to play a part in their lives he will. No matter what anybody says or does will change that.

It goes to show that a majority of people who do the Sunday school thing very rapidly stray from the church. Kids do not want to be afraid and lie to their parents thats wrong. Kids will make their own minds up. What good is Religion if you have to lie to somebody about it. Its not doing these kids any good whasoever. Such a shame. I know these places exist to teach kids about God that you just do not get at school or anywhere else anymore. But some places can be a bit OTT. Its trying to get the right balance. Its a difficult one

10/10/2012 at 12:53

I always end up liking your post vicar even if we disagree on the fundamentals. I get the feeling you want to do good things and that is how you are going to run your church. I hope there are lots like you in the church and that you manage to stay grounded and don't get sucked into the other side of christianity. 

 

And see - there you go talking about the best bits about christianity without a single ' I believe' in sight.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:58

Ninety quid a WEEK? Our congregation has gone down to about 80 a week and our roof is literally non existent now. There is plastic sheeting where the felt used to be and when it rains, we get soaked. The church building is a 1960's perfab that was designed to last ten years. It's done well but we've been saving for about 15 years for a new church. So far we've got £300,000 off the congregation. We need double that and then half again. I am a lone voice in pointing out that the new building is a red herring because the current church is NOT meeting the needs of the younger generation at ALL so by the time we've saved up all the youth will be disillusioned and gone and the wrinklies will be dead. I was 40 last week. They think I'm wet behind the ears!

And we take between £3k and £4k a month on the collection.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:58

GA  - I'd go to his church! I wonder where he is?

10/10/2012 at 13:06

If you lived round here you could come get your church roof paid for by me. I work with a fund that pays for stuff like that and spend so much of my time talking to churches doling out money to help the fabric of their buildings - oh the irony of my atheism.

I see how churches can have a real positive impact in their communities regardless of the religious side. I therefore would not condem religion out of hand - there is a clear need for some sort of community organisation that has a vested interest in the well being of the community.  In our village everything (and I mean EVERTHING) happens in the church hall (paid for by my company's fund  - kudos to us  ).  It was worth every penny and I have only been in the actual church a handful of time (lest I be stuck with lightning).

10/10/2012 at 13:09

http://www.entrust.org.uk/home/lcf/funders-directory?region=63

 

Go onto this site - see if there is a landfill site near your church (within 10 miles) and then you would be eligible for help with the church roof from the Landfill Communities Fund.  Whether or not you would get through the application process is another matter but it is an avenue to try. 

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