Believing in God

or not

81 to 100 of 265 messages
10/10/2012 at 12:01

Yes, surveys seem to routinely show that something like half of Americans believe in Creationism and that the Earth is literally a few thousand years old.  I find that quite staggering.

"Forty six percent Americans believed in creationism, 32 percent believed in theistic evolution and 15 percent believed in evolution without any divine intervention. As the graph below shows, the percent of Americans who believe in creationism has increased slightly by 2 percent over the last 30 years. The percent of Americans who believe in evolution has also increased by 6 percent over the last 30 years while the percent of Americans who believe in theistic evolution has decreased by 6 percent over the same time period."

Huffington Post, May 2012

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:04

I don't mind if you believe or not. And I like to have the discussion. I simply find it infuriating that because people have chosen to NOT believe think it's OK to either ridicule or insult those who do and it's particularly telling amongst those who wouldn't dream of attacking Islam or Judaism for fear of being labelled anti-semitic or Islamophobic, which are apparently "not cool" but it's fine to mock Christianity, as if it's fair game.

This is people's BELIEFS you are disrespecting. And I'm very aware that the Christian church has issues and conflicts it needs to deal with and for that I make no excuse but PLEASE stop with the words like "Jesus freaks" (another thread) and "Bible basher" because its derogatory and makes you look like a bigot. You're just too dim to realise that racial prejudice is actually applying to YOU.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:05

And I see from this thread that many people are VERY respecting of other people's chosen path too. I don't deny that.

 

10/10/2012 at 12:09

Liverbird. I agree but I cannot say this because I have chosen my camp. Religion is a very easy thing to slag off unfortunately and sometimes we do not help ourselves. I have found some comments offensive but truthfully I know everybody can have their own say. I think its healthy that people are talking about these issues and have such strong beliefs

10/10/2012 at 12:13

LB - as I posted on t'other thread

"fair enuff.  but then I don't class most people who believe in the Christian or similar religions, freaks.  Jesus freaks to me are those who are unable/unwilling/or just plain dumb not to see past their beliefs and able to see that there are other points of view - they are single minded, deluded fools, who are often to be found jabbering to themselves or knocking on doors trying to convert people."

I trust you don't find that view disrespectful??   I have no issue with anyone who has their own set of beliefs of whatever flavour, but it's the intolerant ones amongst that group, or those who try to foist their beliefs on me, that grip my shit.

 

10/10/2012 at 12:16

If I have offended I apologise.  

 

I love to talk about religion (as you know Vicar) - and will happily slag off Islam, Judaism and christianity depending on context and which particular part of the theology is under discussion.   I do not believe that a robust faith should be afraid of a little bit of critisicm.  I do think however that to say that it is 'stupid' to believe shows a great lack of empathy.  I will happily say that I think ignorance in a population will lead to busier churches or mosques - and if you look at the world today you can see how faith and poverty are linked in many places.  I think it makes a lot of sense and proves nothing with regards to whether god exists or not.

I think believing in god can make a lot of sense in many circumstances and I think it is a lot nicer and easier to live with than atheism.  I can't help NOT believing any more than a Christian or Moslem can help believing.

 

I do have a strong and abiding hatred of certain members of a certain church who make highly bigoted and offensive statements to the press about certain segments of society - and that I will not apologise for.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:17

I am not terribly popular at the moment for NOT forcing my teenage girls into our church youth groups. My eldest is VERY intelligent and is currently formulating her own opinions about the world around her and it HAS occurred to her to question her belief in God, even though she's been through the Sunday school system and has been brought up in a church environment.

She initially hid her thoughts from us, thinking we would be annoyed or disappointed with her. She had NO IDEA that at some point in our lives we ALL have to accept or reject things and this might mean NOT agreeing with how your parents raised you. I see a lot of contributors on here did precisely that. They HAVE thought it through and decided it's not for them. That's their business and I respect them for it.

Do I want my children to remain in the Christian faith? Absolutely and I pray they do? Would I try to make them? Not in a million years. That's a fatally flawed plan. At the same age I wasn't ready to make my mind up either. Why should they be?

They still go on Sunday morning and they don't object to that but I FEEL pressure from group leaders, as if I'm failing as a parent if they're not banging a tambourine and singing in the street outside the Co-op.

Tough.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:18

FB - we're good. I'm not offended by what you said. As I said earlier, I AGREE with what you say.

10/10/2012 at 12:29

@TheVicar - thanks for such a comprehensive answer.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:30

I've climbed off the soapbox now. As you were

10/10/2012 at 12:31

I agree. Their are some religious people out there who are a disgrace. We always hear about them as its good news, something to write about. I try not to force my ideas, I say what I believe and what i feel. As I said before me saying anything isn't going to change anybody so I don't waste my time. My 2 year old daughter isn't Baptised and I wasn't even married in Church. I choose what I want to do. I have had some woman in my church slating me for not baptising my daughter and you just think really is this what Jesus is all about?  Realistically all Christians are flawed massively. I know I am. I get pissed off I shout. I get angry at people. I drive like a loon sometimes;-). I find people in my congregation abhorrent. I dislike people. We are all human. Difference is I accept that. I'll do whats best for me if it annoys God then he can suck my b""ls. He shouldn't have let me get into the position I am in and do what I am doing, only messing. But I do not get on peoples cases, everything is up to the individual. If somebody says why isn't your daughter baptised I will tell them, but if they have a go i'll tell them to get a life and do one. So basically Liverbird if people have a dig because your little un's arn't going to Church, tell them tough s""t and get alife I cannot stand people forcing beliefs and thoughts onto other people when they need to look at themselves. As my mate Jesus says Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye

10/10/2012 at 12:32

Intermanaut- I quite enjoy all this

10/10/2012 at 12:33
TheVicar wrote (see)

 if it annoys God then he can suck my b""ls.

Well, he is omnipotent I suppose...

10/10/2012 at 12:36

LB, I have no problem with saying that Islam and Judaism is wrong too and I'm extremely wary if I see a bloke with a big beard carrying a rucksack, much the same as I was seeing a christrian leaving an unattended hold all in the 70/80's.

I really couldn't care less what someone believes, it's fine, good or them, I personally just find it perplexing that with absolutely no evidence what so ever anyone could believe there is a god (it doesn't deseve a capital).

Gym addict has summed up my thoughts many times in this and other threads, about religion being a form of control and power, that's all it is. And that's what's sad, organised religion, if a weak minded person was being preyed on and taken advantage of, say by cow boy work men you'd want the authorities to crack down on them, well that's how I see religion when they ask for donations.

...And really, if someone I don't know, who's opinion is of no consequence to my life thinks i'm bigoted, so what? Sticks and stones..

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:38

WHOSE opinion, Lardarse. You were doing alright up until that point.

10/10/2012 at 12:39

Phil thats very good philosophy of theology right there

LIVERBIRD    pirate
10/10/2012 at 12:43
TheVicar wrote (see)

 So basically Liverbird if people have a dig because your little un's arn't going to Church, tell them tough s""t and get alife I cannot stand people forcing beliefs and thoughts onto other people when they need to look at themselves. As my mate Jesus says Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye

What I find most telling is that MY kids come back from these youth groups (when they DO go) and tell me that the children of the leaders are openly lying to their parents about things they believe to appease them! It's like there's a big elephant in the room. I feel like saying "at least my girls have the balls to tell the truth about what they think and feel"

10/10/2012 at 12:44
lardarse wrote (see)

I really couldn't care less what someone believes, it's fine, good or them, I personally just find it perplexing that with absolutely no evidence what so ever anyone could believe there is a god (it doesn't deseve a capital).

 

No evidence ? There are stories in the bible that provide evidence ? Or were you expecting Jesus to set up a Facebook account or post some videos on YouTube ?
10/10/2012 at 12:47

LA. If you came to my church on Sunday you will see no control or power. The people attend to worship God then sod off after a cuppa. They are not being preyed on at all. They are intelligent people who make up their own minds. I'm not dragging them there out of bed in the morning saying come or you are going to hell. These are your next door neighbours, people you work with. This is Christian religion on the streets of England today. We take a collection yes. Usually 80-90 people turn up and we make about 80-90 quid. A quid a head and they get a cuppa out of that. I think its value for money Coffee is a bit cheap mind. I understand what you mean is its used in other countries to make the powerful more powerful and the richer richer. IE these televangelists in America. But grass roots Christianity in the country we all live in is not guided that way whatsoever. It gives the old dears who are widowed to meet with some friends. It gives lonely people a chance to mix with others. OR it gives extremely normal people the chance to worship God in a safe place with people they know and love.

10/10/2012 at 12:48

I was brought up to believe in evolution and Darwinism. Then the creationists took over my school, and I realized I'd have to adapt to survive.

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