What PhilPub says.
I once had to post a reminder to a discussion about religion that atheism was not to be confused with Satanism as many of the believers seemed to have the two confused.
I’m enjoying reading this discussion. I’m not religious myself but dad was a vicar for many years. The one thing that always annoyed him was people making assumptions about what he believed. He has never taken a literal interpretation of the bible, or believed in the resurrection of Christ or even in God (at least in the sense that most people mean when they talk about a supernatural being). What always surprised me when talking to the ‘churchy’ people I encountered was how rare a belief in the kind of God ridiculed by the likes of Dawkins was. Or in fact how unimportant the question was to them in the first place. Their faith seemed to be focused far more on a shared sense of morals and a spiritual feeling that there is something deeper in the experience of being human than a scientific description communicates.
One thing that really put the cherry on the top of my atheism was visting the Vatican City ... yip all that poverty and humility oops sorry is that gold I see, must be a different kind of poverty then.
Mr Viper - SPOT ON! shared sense of morals and spiritual feeling - this is an essential part of life - religion, not so much.
I think what Dawkins is ridiculing is basically American-style christianity
Yup very much so. Richard Dawkins isn't all that i'm afraid. He got pretty massacred by a chap called William Lane Craig and keeps shying away from having a debate with him. Basically because what Dawkins doesn't realise is that real religion is pretty boring I am afraid and WLC plays on that.
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)
Liver bird is a bible basher. Perhaps God looks like LB ?
Then God needs to get in the gym and eat less chocolate.
God is everywhere !
Citing Dawkins' refusal to debate Lane Craig is hardly a decent argument against Dawkins. I've never seen anyone offer an argument for the existence of God that is better-made than Dawkins' argument that there isn't.
Then again, when you've got science, evidence and truth on your side, it doesn't really matter what someone like Lage Craig says.
Ah but William Lane Craig argues what I believe is a more powerful argument for God than Dawkins does against. Thats because I'm a Christian lol
Also a good read are any books by Lee Strobel, Case for God, Case for Christ. Very interesting because he takes and uses only hard facts for the proof of God. Written facts from other Historians, Archaelogical evidence etc
urgh - 'hard facts' I don't believe you I'm afraid.
Facts for the existence of historical people and events - proof of God - nope.
Philosophical arguments perhaps.
He makes a very good argument for Jesus existing and for the resurrection. If that was true then that's Christianity and God exists. You will alway bring some bias towards reading anything
A good argument for the resurrection..... right - and so god conveniently manages miracles and a resurrection for the good book then but has done nothing ever since as the world goes to hell. Don't buy it I'm afraid.
Vicar, it seems Dawkins has very good reason not to want to waste his time with your man Lane Craig as he explains here
And to be honest, judging by the views Lane Craig seems to hold, I'm not sure you really want to be holding him up as a shining example of Christian theology - he sounds like just the sort of OT-defending, creationist, bigoted idiot that gives religious people a bad name. Check out this...
Quite the enlightened one isn't he?!
I was chucked out of the Scouts when I refused to attend church. Something about the atmosphere with all those apparently rational human beings praying to some supernatural entity gives me the bloody creeps. Surely someone should be looking after these people.
Someone really needs to explain to me why the god-squad (in the media and in the US) have SUCH a massive problem with homosexuality. Seriously - aren't there more important things to care about than what folks get up to in the privacy of their own homes. And don't anyone dare quote the bible - because we all know that you can cherry-pick to condem or condone just about anything.
I have to agree with GymAddict - if an all loving all forgiving god does exist, surely he would not condem the gay and lesbian society and who knows, if he created man in his own image, perhaps he was a little bi curious!!
kittenkat wrote (see)
What is the deciding factor that influences belief or non belief? Personality, upbringing, trauma, illness? What do you think?
What is the deciding factor that influences belief or non belief?
Personality, upbringing, trauma, illness?
What do you think?
Whether the person is naïve enough to fall for a fraud, or not.
Look at Jonathan Edwards as an example of someone who was brought up to believe in God until one day he realised there was no evidence of his existance. He'd never even questioned the subject until then and had just assumed God existed because other people said so.
We're lucky we can have this discussion, only a few centuries ago we would have been burnt at the stake as heratics and witches by the lovely god fearing benevolent christians! And probably would still "disapear", in Islamic countries.
Which is the main reason for these two thousand odd year old cults to have survived so long, fear, if they were started today the authorities wouldn't let them kill non belivers, at least not in this country, maybe.
I see absolutely no difference between the cult of Jesus (who I do believe existed, just he was an ordinary if not clever bloke who had the gift of the gab) and people like David Koresh and charles manson.
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