F1

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Rafiki    pirate
25/03/2013 at 08:18
Mmmatt wrote (see)
Sussex Runner (NLR) wrote (see)
So cycling is the biggest spectator sport? Well you learn something everyday!

 

Is it? I suppose it's possible ...

without being too pedantic, he did say the Tour de France was the biggest spectaor event, which apparently it is, with 15 million regualr spectators each year (only 3 of which actually understand what's going on )

25/03/2013 at 09:01

Motor sport is not really interesting in any way once the Teams have got hold of it. Lower end racing where the amateurs can get involved is more interesting

25/03/2013 at 09:07
cougie wrote (see)
Cav wasn't wrong in his assessment of the Olympic road race.
A small break got away. They could have been pulled back if the big teams worked
- but they didn't want to. Cycling is a fascinating sport.

One man cannot win against the whole bunch.

Thats strange, I dont remember someone holding a gun to Cav's head, preventing him from joining the breakaway .......... but of course he should have 'assumed' the main bunch would help him catch up ..... I mean we all know 'assumptions' never ever go wrong ...... and thats why you should never bother planning these things into your preperations, because that would be silly ....... why plan for these things when you can just assume other countries riders will help you out.

 

25/03/2013 at 09:21

Cav wouldn't have been allowed to join the break.   He wasn't assuming the main bunch would help him - he was hoping that it wouldn't be left entirely to GB because some other teams had sprinters who might have won had the bunch brought the break back.     

25/03/2013 at 09:25

"Cav wouldn't have been allowed to join the break."

Why wasnt he allowed to join the break? If some riders thought it was clever to breakaway ...... why didnt he join with them? 

The bottom line is they clearly didnt put any strategy in play for 'what happens if their is a breakaway and we don't get help from other teams, then what?'

So more fool GB for not thinking of this scenario ........ if you allow a breakaway to go and just 'hope' that other teams will help you out, then more fool you. If a breakaway is such a stupid idea no-one would be doing it, so clearly some people thought it would be a good idea.

Don't try and hang this on other teams....... it was poor strategy, pure and simple by Team GB ........... 

Bouncing Barlist    pirate
25/03/2013 at 09:54

There wasnt really much of a strategy open to Team GB, they only really had a loose commitment from the Germans to work with them, the rest of the teams were in it for themselves and loathe to support GB.

It was inevitable that there would be a breakaway at some point, you cant chase every feint and break-away and do all the work.

It came down to 4 riders from Team GB having to chase a break of 8-10 riders.  GB were getting half the rest between efforts than the front pack.

25/03/2013 at 10:15

DF3 - Confirmed for not understanding cycling amongst a great many other things.

If Cav joined the breakaway they would have given up and returned to the bunch, as the reason for the breakaway was to drop the sprinters. The reason Cav mentioned the Aussies not working is that they had a very good sprinter, but decided not to work for him even though he was their best medal prospect. Cav didn't expect the other teams to work for him. He was surprised that the other nations with strong sprinters didn't bother chasing. They obviously were scared of Cav in a sprint and hoped Team GB would bring all the breakaways back leaving nothing to lead out Cav.

That plan is really dumb, as a small national team is always going to struggle to do that and also as on many occasions Cav has shown that he can do it without a lead out train. The mistake by Team GB was to call their bluff and put a decent rider in the breakaway.

25/03/2013 at 10:27

" They obviously were scared of Cav in a sprint and hoped Team GB would bring all the breakaways back leaving nothing to lead out Cav."

 

So what plan did Team GB have in place to cater for this scenario???

it  never occured to Team GB that the other teams sprinters might not go after the breakaway ...... sorry, sounds like a flaw in the planning process to me.

Nothing to do with not knowing cycling ...... someone won the gold medal doing what they were doing ....... just because cav as a sprinter didnt have every other cyclist in the world playing along to his game, who's fault is that? That all of the cyclists should have catered for Cav being a sprinter so should have ridden in a way that suited him, so Team GB could win the gold?

Clearly other teams thought differently ....... so bigger fools Team GB for not catering for this. I doubt the guy who won gold would think his tactics in the race were stupid as you are claiming.

25/03/2013 at 14:12
the dude abides wrote (see)

glad to see that Vettel has apologised for any viewer inadvertently entertained.

Nice one.  Spot on.

Mmmatt wrote (see)

Have any of you watched the Tour De France?

8 guys that won't overtake their leader (except when it'll save him some effort) - it's the biggest spectator event on the planet. Recommended.

Cycling is totally different from F1.   The tactical and aerodynamic advantages of teamwork make an insurmountable difference in cycling - and it is part of the spectator spectacle. The thing I'd change is to give out team medals in cycling, istead of (or as well as) individual medals.

In F1, on-track team work has very little effect.  Any driver can win without help from a team-mate... and that teamwork is not part of the spectator spectacle.   Team orders were banned in 2002... because it makes a mockery of the sport.  The decision was lifted in 2011, not because it was wrong to ban it, but because they couldn't enforce it.

WiB
25/03/2013 at 14:34

F1 is a joke when they pull stunts like at the weekend. I am glad is back fired on them. Thankfully it has not really made its way into bike racing yet, well, not anything beyond the occasional going easy on their championship leading team mate at the last race of the year.

Even when team orders were banned, they found ways around it. For example, pull the other car in for a pit stop needlessly.

WiB
25/03/2013 at 16:49

Cycling is a very subtle and tactical sport, you can tell this because the really average cyclist dumbly raced off really quickly and were sat around looking stupid and feeling sheepish with their medals hung around their necks whilst the decent teams were still out on the course arguing over who should try a little bit cos it won't be us.

With my untrained eye these subtlties passed me by and it just looked like the Brits cocked it up wholesale, their argument that if they tried to catch them up other teams might chase them down was genius, much better to stay in the peloton and not let that happen. For a cycling team that claims to focus on the tiny percentages they didn't seem to have much in the way of contingency planning.

F1 - A car overtakes another car and headlines spin around the globe, says it all. Still Hamilton pitting at Maclaren amused me greatly. 

cougie    pirate
25/03/2013 at 17:02
So you think that you understand cycling better than Team GB oirisheyes ?
It's so easy to say that they got it wrong without offering the correct tactics.

It's a lot easier to make a team or person lose than it is to win.

Vino isn't exactly an average cyclist. He's won multiple stages and big races.
GB can't mark everyone. If they tried theyd be worn out half way through the race.
25/03/2013 at 17:14
I think tactics is part of why cycling is such a great sport. F1 on the other hand is something else. Far too much is decided by events outside of the skills of the driver. I love cycling and can watch the Tour for hours. F1 I can't watch for more than 5 minutes.
WiB
25/03/2013 at 17:29
As a big motorsport fan I don't want to agree but certainly in terms of F1 that us exactly right.
WiB
26/03/2013 at 06:56
Run Wales wrote (see)

In F1, on-track team work has very little effect.  Any driver can win without help from a team-mate... and that teamwork is not part of the spectator spectacle.


I think that's only partly true. reliability is the xtra (rather boring!) element in F1. If a driver (e.g. Webber) is leading comfortably he can save the car and increase his finishing chances - a compliant teammate can help a lot here.

Also, in motorsport overtaking is often problematic - see the RedBull coming together in (IIRC) Turkey2010. No team wants that - far better to have a somewhat boring 1-2 and risk some public derision.

26/03/2013 at 16:45

Team orders should have no place in F1. If a driver is capable of overtaking, then he should go for it.

26/03/2013 at 19:22
So when is a team not a team?

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