Controversial subject for your first post Splatcat. Careful or you will be accused of being a troll
I must say though, this seems trivial compared with what's happening in Russia - but it does show you how far we have come.
Few mentions of CofE. My belief is..............
I will never turn down anybody to get married. Be they black white green purple lesbian gay etc. However I will turn somebody away who has cheated on their other half to get with the person they are marrying, have been married several times and it pretty much seems its their own fault for the break down of previous marriages. Now I would ask these questions. I have married a woman who has been divorced 4 times, but in talking to her she was just very unlucky. So theres my take
I can appreciate you have a personal opinion that youre entitled to but you're being very judgemental, are you sure you feel suitable to provide the service at all. It's not for you to decide their suitability on any grounds really is it?
this is no different to the people who want to oppose gay marriage using religious beliefs,, so in effect you're no better than they are. There's my take
It's rare that one party is solely responsible for a divorce and for that to have happened to your wife 4 times means she really is either the most uniquely unlucky woman in the world where marriage is concerned; she is not telling you the whole truth (or you're in denial about it); or she's a terrble judge of character.
Good for you for giving her the benefit if the doubt (which I think you are) but don't you think that as a vicar you should extend that to others? Isn't judgement your God's job after all?
I think that anybody who is marrying two people has the right to refuse to perform the ceremony if they feel that the marriage is being entered into lightly or for the wrong reasons. You are taking a vow and it is a serious decision to make.
How on earth anyone is supposed to determine whether two people are marrying for the wrong reasons is open to debate. At the end of the day the individual performing the ceremony needs to feel comfortable in their own mind that they are doing the right thing. If the couple really want to wed that badly then they will find someone else who is willing to perform the ceremony.
The priest hood is a profession (as well as a calling for some). In any other profession an individual can refuse to serve a customer - a builder might decide not to submit a quote for example. I don't see why the priesthood should be any different
However, I don't think people should be prevented from marrying by the law in the case of same sex couples. The option should be open to them
I mean I personally didn't marry a women I mean I have carried out the service for.
Supercaz that's what I meant. Yes I shouldn't judge but marriage is a big thing and if somebody turns up on the doorstep wanting to be married for the wrong reasons then I wouldn't do it. I can turn them away and they will o down the registry office or find a priest that doesn't care, but unfortunately I am not here to please everybody, I have to make a judgement like it or not. I am afraid some things have to be left as a sacrament, marriage is a sacrament and should be treated as one. Not get married to get your thai bride into the country, or for monetary gain, or just because you want to get married again for the umpteenth time to give your children matching names! Many things in this day and age are seen as superficial
Ah, I misunderstood but the same goes - she told you a damned good story and you gave her the benefit of the doubt.
So the issue is that you would potentially deny that to others because they weren't able to spin such a convincing line.
Not good - but a great advert for secular marriage which is completely impartial.
Vicars are just as human as anyone else (at least I *think* they are). Why are you expecting them to behave any differently to anybody else? We all disciminate or judge people based on our own criteria. You only need to look at a couple of threads in Clubhouse to see that.
Or are you telling me that you have never treated anyone differently ever Screamy?
Scream, I understood the marrying of the four-timer but left it there for you for pure comic effect.
Marriage is now a legal issue the sacrement stuff is secondary, what you're saying is you prefer to work to a higher law, and I may be presenting a contrary argument but I do actually agree with you, I'm just illustrating the stupidity and lack of ethics in our law makers.
Making your moral judgement is going to be against some kind of law or you will face a lawsuit. Don't think for one minute you can match morals and ethics with the law that link was broken many years ago.
SuperCaz wrote (see)
Vicars are just as human as anyone else (at least I *think* they are). Why are you expecting them to behave any differently to anybody else? We all disciminate or judge people based on our own criteria. You only need to look at a couple of threads in Clubhouse to see that. Or are you telling me that you have never treated anyone differently ever Screamy?
I'm favouring impartiality - my morals and the next persons may well be different but if marriage is a legal contract then it should be like the rest of the law - impartial and not dependent on whether one person believes your heart is or isn't in it .
Whatever happened to "judge not, lest ye be judged" and "first remove the beam from thine own eye"? Judgement is for God, who seemed perfectly happy with some less than ideal marriages in that cracking read the old testament.
But we all judge all the time. For example, my friend who turned down a quote from a bathroom fitter because she felt uncomfortable in his company. There was no proof that she was unsafe with him, but she allowed her judgement to inform her decisions.
Or those on here who judge people on the speed they can run a marathon.
Or my judgement today that the young whippersnapper in the hardware store wouldn't be able to answer my questions because he was young (I was right in that he couldn't answer my question but it may have had nothing to do with his age)
There is no law that states that vicars MUST marry everybody eligible. There are laws that say that you cannot discriminate based on age, gender, sexuality, race but there aren't any that state that you can't discriminate on other factors (brown hair, personality, number of previous marriages for example)
But there IS an instruction from Jesus himself to restrain or eliminate our natural tendency to judge people harshly.
That is true, if you believe in Jesus. But I understood that he died for our sins or something like that, because we are human and therefore prone to temptation? I'm not religious so I'm just parroting what I have picked up and I have probably got that all wrong.
I'm not religious either. But the whole dying for our sins bit doesn't quite add up either.If you forigve someone, should you stop punishing them? Bear with me.Mankind as a whole was punished for the whole tree of knowledge business back in Eden. Banishment from Eden and pain in childbirth were two of the punishments. If we've been forgiven, we should be allowed back into paradise, and childbirth should be completely painless, and should have been for a couple of thousand years now. How many times do we have to nail God to a tree to be forgiven for this stuff?
I understand what you are saying, but if you want to pick holes in the Bible then we could be here all night. Most of my arguments have been based in what I feel is morally right rather than religiously right.
I just like an argument.
Religion = bollocks.
Nicky McNamerson wrote (see)
I'm not religious either. But the whole dying for our sins bit doesn't quite add up either.If you forigve someone, should you stop punishing them? Bear with me.Mankind as a whole was punished for the whole tree of knowledge business back in Eden. Banishment from Eden and pain in childbirth were two of the punishments. If we've been forgiven, we should be allowed back into paradise, and childbirth should be completely painless, and should have been for a couple of thousand years now. How many times do we have to nail God to a tree to be forgiven for this stuff? Screamapillar wrote (see) I'm an atheist but I wouldn't describe the Church as a "strange cult."
Screamapillar wrote (see)
I'm an atheist but I wouldn't describe the Church as a "strange cult."
I'm an atheist but I wouldn't describe the Church as a "strange cult."
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