golliwog doll

right or wrong?

21 to 40 of 78 messages
12/10/2012 at 12:13

re the ginger doll. that is up to ginger-haired people. as far as I am aware they aren't offended. if they are, then we can have a thread discussion about that. but they aren't so we arent.

the offensiveness of the doll is slightly irrelevant. the real point i'm making is: is it an appropriate present? the in-laws could have chosen any doll/toy they wanted in the world. anything. but they didn't. they chose something they knew could cause offence. rightly, or wrongly, that was a dumb thing to do.

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 12:14
12/10/2012 at 12:15

tda - what would be your view if the parents were black and they were buying the doll for their black child??   would a gollowig doll be viewed by them as stereotyping??  

I don't have kids so can't pass comment, but I'm pretty sure that it must be very disheartening, and somewhat also racist, if black parents can only buy white dolls??  I can't honestly say that I've seen a black doll (not that I've looked hard) since the passing of the orginal golliwogs dolls

at the end of the day, it's a doll and a 6 month old child won't be bothered with the colour 

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 12:17
12/10/2012 at 12:17

i'd stick it in the attic in case it's worth something in a few years - that's if it's an original. if it's a new toy, then it's worth nothing, and i'd bin it. I'm not saying everyone should bin it, i'm saying I would bin it, or perhaps give it back to the inlaws with a polite explanation of why I think it is inappropriate. plus I think they're ugly dolls anyway.

either way, he's your child and until he's old enough to make these sort of judgements for himself, you're within your rights to decide what is and isn't appropriate for him.

12/10/2012 at 12:20

FB - my view would be that it's utterly bizarre

as regards your general point, it isn't about the colour of the doll. my neice has a black doll and so do many in her nursery. that isn't offensive in the least, nor is it banned. it is this particular type of doll that causes offence.

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 12:22
12/10/2012 at 12:21

Come on fb, it takes two seconds to do google image search on "black doll" and ignore the freaky scary results!  Golliwogs are another matter entirely...

I'm with the dude on this - it's one thing to address taboo subjects in the name of mature debate but we're talking about a toy for a baby.  What's wrong with a nice teddy bear?!

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 12:22
12/10/2012 at 12:21
I am not saying he can't have a black doll, that wouldnt have been an issue, The golliwog is a symbol of an idiot which Victorians believed coloured people to be. thick and uneducated. dont forget it wasnt till the 50s when west indians arrived that britain got an ethnic element. before then they were poorly paid and sometimes mistreated servants. Even upto the 80s there was a strong racist element even in this country, 80s tv shows this with rising damp etc. in the 90s we as a nation became more enlightened and symbols like the golliwog were disposed of. The accepted term is now gollidolls but doesn't make the symbol right.

Sarah, I can see the problem with barbies ie skinny but seen as dumb and blonde. All girls dolls have freckles as it is supposed to be a sign of beauty.
12/10/2012 at 12:25

I have kids and I can tell you there are plenty of black, non-golliwog dolls around.

seren nos    pirate
12/10/2012 at 12:25

a golliwog doll is different to a black doll..if its a black doll i would find that totally acceptable.....

a goliwog doll is not........it was term that was use as a offensive phrase and it is wrong to use it in these more enlighrtened day....s..........it is associated with the whole time of racism.....

i would not allow one in my house

12/10/2012 at 12:30

I'd bin it - doesn't surprise me they got it from Ingoldmells that place is as close to hell on earth you'll get - had to drop my daughter and her mates off there this Summer for a day in that big funfair place there is there - I felt like I should really have a couple of tattoos, take my shirt off and walk round with a lager just to fit in - it's like visiting the City Ground by the sea.    

12/10/2012 at 12:33

Do young children really know the difference between a golliwog and a black doll ? I doubt they will search on the internet to find the history of the golliwog and then tell their parents they dont want to play with it. In my opinion, a young child will not know the difference and just play with a golliwog in the same way they would a black doll. The fact that some people would make such a fuss of it, and they are entitled to their views, just means that racisim is still discussed.  

12/10/2012 at 12:34
popsider wrote (see)

- it's like visiting the City Ground by the sea.    

Pie or shagger ?

seren nos    pirate
12/10/2012 at 12:35

do young children know the difference in calling a person a black man or a nigger......probably not..........but i would definitely think one is wrong and would stop them using that word

12/10/2012 at 12:36

I would not want my child to play with a golliwog doll, and I wouldn't want to own one. I think runningowl and the dude abides have summed up my what I feel about them. I know plenty of people who would be eager to say that there is no harm in them because they were around when they were kids, but then so was asbestos.

12/10/2012 at 12:36

True story - when we were kids we had a couple of genuine wartime armbands with swastikas on them - no idea where they came from (neither of my parents are nazis - not to my knowledge anyway - I think it's just the kind of things that got brought back from the war and somehow found there way into our dressing up box as they do) and we had no idea what they really symbolised we just used them for playing war with.   I wouldn't suggest it's OK to buy a young kid nazi regalia th ough - neither is it OK to buy them a golliwog.   

12/10/2012 at 12:38

I'm scared of dolls so regardless of its in black/white/ginger - it'd scare me.

12/10/2012 at 12:39

Yes, there are plenty of black dolls around and of course there is no problem with children of any background playing with them! Rooti Dolls were in the news this week as the company said want to promote a healthier self-image amoung young black children by providing dolls that they can identify with.

But a golliwog isn't a 'black doll' in my opinion, it's a lazy, racist, stereotype masquerading as a children's toy.

12/10/2012 at 12:41

My daughter is scared of her old favourite doll after her brother showed her a trailer for Childs Play on youtube.   

cougie    pirate
12/10/2012 at 12:45

I had no idea a golliwog was racist when I was a kid.  I didnt see any link to it being human at all.  It was just a golliwog. And gonks were just gonks.  Aah simpler times.

12/10/2012 at 12:47

I totally agree xine267. It's just that someone asked if there were 'ordinary' black dolls - there are plenty! The golliwog is, as you say, a lazy racist stereotype from another era.

12/10/2012 at 12:56
I think Golliwogs are an interesting part of British history but I do think we shouldn't be making them and selling them today. You can find one quite easily in the Isle of Wight(White). An elderly relative bought one for my daughter and we flatly refused to except it. There are plenty more nicer things for them to buy like the measles and the common cold.
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