Hillisborough

JF50 wrote (see)

One of the problems of looking back so many years at events like this is that many people of today do not understand how something like this could have happened.  Today at major events there are command and control centres, cctv looking at everything, all the police and other security staff equipped with sophisticated communications.  Probably lots of people under 40 or so just wouldn't recognise how things were done years ago.  That lessons have come from this awful disaster are a testament to the values that most people hold dear

Bad decisions were made at the time by quite a few people but they would have been made in good faith from what they knew, the crime is the deliberate deception that took place afterwards and I do think that especially where some of those people are still in positions of authority they should be subject to some sort of action.

Do you know 60% of football supporters still enter stadiums in the 30 minutes before kick off?

If you have pre allocated seating Why would you enter the ground any earlier? The majority of the ones inside Anfield earlier than this are corporate clients having meals or the tourists on Thomas Cook match breaks

There is no pre match entertainment, very limited facilities and the teams come out to warm up 30 mins before kick off. not much point being in earlier

The prices inside Anfield are high for food and drink.

Better off supporting the local businesses with your custom and then take your seat prior to kick off.

Flat Foo..ted wrote (see)

Brought to account??, what would have them do to an 80+ year old woman??, public flogging, another apology

I believe if she wasn't suffering from dementia then she should have been brought to account.........it was evil what she did.......................

But I do think we should not be paying here every year now...............Ex prime minsters get paid payments as they have to still deal with questions regarding their time in office extra........as she can not answer any questions for many years.why on earth do we pay her

I know I stopped watching football in 1985 when watching the dreadful events unfolding at the Heysel Stadium when so many Italian supporters died - Football never seemed the same after that - that one set of supporters could do that to another at what should have been a joyful occasion.

Jpenno afraid I'm in a rush so can't find you the link but if you look at today's Sheffield star's front page got a story about the police you might find interesting. Nothing you don't know already but find it a bit strange because I think but never had it confirmed that it was this paper that the police original made there claims to. Then got taken on by all the national press including the scum.

As with all of these things, it is probably importnat to remember the historical context. Britain had a very different culture in 1985. Watching football was very different as an experience.

That said...... I remember watching it unfold on the TV. The feeling of disbelief was overwhelming, along with the other emotion.. why does someone not do something? We could see that the fans had to be let out of the cages.... perhaps it was more difficult at ground level.

Like many I am shocked to hear that 41 could have been saved.

I am also shocked that so many have lied to cover these things up.

I don't see an issue here. In any other walk of life criminal charges would be brought, and those in the frame would have been suspended from duty, if still serving. We need answers for:

• Those repsonsible for criminal negligence on the day, and into the evening
• Those who deliberately peverted the course of justice.

Well done Liverpool ( the city not just the club) for the dogged perserverence and dignity which you have shown.

Why go there.

South Yorkshire Police deliberately lead a massive cover up any serving officer(there won't be many) or retired officer should face the full weight of the law.

But sadly there are idiots like Norman Bettison who will continue to point the finger of blame at fans  in fact rival teams now chant " ITS NEVER YOUR FAULT" at Lpool fans so people like Bettison, Mackenzie who issue apologies through gritted teeth or to protect lucrative media contracts will always have an audience but like teh English defence league ill will  be half witts and the ill informed.

The real disgarce is that Bettison could not keep his mouth shut and for the first time accept critcism. When he was Chief Constable of Merseyside it was a standing joke that he would turn up to the opening of an envelope if the press were there to take his picture and juding by the number of pictures in Wakefield now he hasn't changed 

Am i right in thinking that corporate manslaughter was only brought in a few years ago, so wouldn't this make any historic charge impossible?

Only if you're looking specifically at manslaughter but those responsible should feel the full weight of whatever law applies. There have been far too many instances over the years where suspicion has been on the Police and this will open the floodgates, it won't be the last. Maybe then we can start to correct other areas of incompetence in what should be our trusted Police force.

Corporate manslaughter came into effect 6 April 2008, this would suggest that the police can't be prosecuted under the Act.  

FF - the info supplies states "

Who is covered by the new offence?

The offence applies to all companies and other corporate bodies, operating in the UK, in the private, public and third sectors. It also applies to partnerships (and to trade unions and employers’ associations) if they are an employer, as well as to Government departments and police forces."

Under section 13 of the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 it states that it does apply to the Police as if they were a body corporate (ie a company)

It should therefore apply to the Police, the issue is whether the provisions of the Statutory Instrument allow the offence to be backdated or whether the offence had to be commited after 06/04/08 and on a very quick perusal of the Statutory Instrument I cant find the answer

I wouldn't expect manslaughter charges anyway, as there appear to be too many reasons for the events and it would be impossible to blame anyone in particular. Also I'm not sure that would do any good going forward, for the future I'd be more interested to see people prosecuted for the cover up, the deceit and the lies. This would constitute serious charges that could be applied to all concerned and serve as a warning.

There are currently 130 police officers still serving that were on duty that day, far more than I thought, I wonder how many of them are now Shi!!ing themselves about something they were assured would not be an issue 23 years ago (and how many other issues and cover ups will be unearthed in SYP)

What they did on the day can only be judged as incompetent at worst, I don't think anyone could say it was anything more and that would be a difficult prosecution. You'd either prosecute all or none. The best route would be to prosecute the people who covered it up and who falsified statements. This is clearly wrong and would carry a deserved jail term. 

I would have thought that the most likely charges would be for Perverting the Course of Justice, which (in theory) carries a maximum of a life sentence. 

What did the picture say on the wall of Warden Norton's office in the Shawshank Redemption at the point he realised his years of corruption had been unearthed? "His judgment cometh and that Right Soon"

ET afraid i have to agree with you a lot about the comments towards to club. It's minority but most idiots are. Something to think about for anyone who ever goes to Hillsborough now there are two memorials outside the ground. One by the road junction near the tram stop there which is very small and was placed after money raised from I believe the families and friends of the people who died and a much bigger and better one by the main entrance to the club.

The second one was placed after the broad members who where running the club left and they had refused access to the victims association to place a memorial at the time they had asked hence who it's at a road junction. When they left under a cloud the new board following pressure quite rightly made it possible for the second memorial to be placed on SWFC grounds. It's still relevant because of on the board members at the time of the disaster is now I believe still the chairman of the premiership. He's been very quite the last few day's.

I agree with every single word JP says.

Mr LB was there on that day. He has rarely spoken about it in the last 20 years as he keeps it to himself. It's his coping mechanism. He wrote on his Facebook page on Wednesday..

"those of us who were there KNEW the truth. Now....so do you".

And he lays the blame squarely with the police and ambulance service. Heads should roll.

I agree that heads should roll for the deceipt but I think to pursue people from over 20 years ago for decisions made under pressure and in the prevailing conditions of those days will not achieve succesful prosecutions for manslaughter or lesser charges.  So many of the witnesses of that day will no longer be with us and I mean the football authorities as well as all the emergency services and also supporters who would have made witness statements at the time.

The Taylor Report which was looking at different aspects of that day has at least achieved some really tangible results and just generally the technology available today for use at major stadium events means that the chances of similar tragedies have been greatly reduced.  

The senior figures in the cover up though should be pursued with vigour so that not only is some justice achieved for the events that day but also the authorities know that they ultimately answer to the population.  We sometimes mock the attempts at democracy in emerging countries and yet corruption is still a part of our public life.