Hillisborough

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12/09/2012 at 20:25

I saw a training video by the fire service which said that part of the reason the fire spread so quickly is that the area beneath the stands was full of cardboard boxes, which were basically kindling to the stands above.  I know hindsight is 20:20 but......

In the light of what we know now and have heard today, it's unbelievable that this cover up was able to take place.  How the hell did it happen without anyone having a conscience and blowing the whistle?

12/09/2012 at 21:37

There wasn't a fire at Hillsborough, think you are thinking of the fire that killed 56 at Bradford City.

Edited: 12/09/2012 at 21:39
13/09/2012 at 06:09
Apparently the home secretary at the time welcomed the original report and findings, Thatcher didn't want criticism of the police and told him to concentrate on the recommendations. Should she not be brought to account as the person clearly responsible for covering up the true findings
13/09/2012 at 10:29

Brought to account??, what would have them do to an 80+ year old woman??, public flogging, another apology

13/09/2012 at 10:46

An apology would be good yes.   

13/09/2012 at 11:04

I would take her to task at least she should explain herself. if we can take Tony Blair to task for his deeds as PM she should be accountable for hers.

13/09/2012 at 11:13
EG Graham wrote (see)

I would take her to task at least she should explain herself. if we can take Tony Blair to task for his deeds as PM she should be accountable for hers.

What has Tony Blair been brought to account for?

By the way I agree that the government of the time should accept some responsibility.  It is unthinkable that they weren't aware of that was going on.

Edited: 13/09/2012 at 11:17
13/09/2012 at 11:19

She would have a job explaining herself.  She suffers from dementia.

 

JPenno    pirate
13/09/2012 at 11:30

David Cameron made the apology on behalf of the Government yesterday, An Apology from Thatcher would not be accepted on Merseyside, its similar to the one from the Scum Newspaper, too little too late.

The ones who should be brought to task are the Police, including David Duckinfield who ordered the opening of the gates and then alleged that they had been kicked open and ANYONE who perverted the course of justice by amending and or signing an amended statement knowing that it was not a true account of the event and that they were seeking to deliberately prevent the Police and Ambulance service from criticism and prosecution.

The FA, Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield City Council should  all also face Corporate Manslaughter charges for allowing the game to proceed when the ground did not have a safety certificate.

13/09/2012 at 11:39
petwencal wrote (see)

She would have a job explaining herself.  She suffers from dementia.

 

I have to say I always thought she was demented at the best of times, this proves she was also crooked

13/09/2012 at 11:42

Glad you find dementia something to mock. 

 

13/09/2012 at 11:47
The ground had a safety certificate. The problem with it is it was done in 1979 with no statute of limitation even tho there had been changes made to leppings lane and there had been concerns the previous year.

Bare in mind the ground ie the stand had held game after game with equal and in case of a Sheffield derby more fans. The problem came when the combination of very poor policing and the unfortunate lateness of fans. Loads delayed on the motorway not just from pubs
13/09/2012 at 11:50

As bad as it was there were many reasons for the incident, and so it would be impossible to call it as unlawful killing, however it is unforgiveable to have had the facts and to have chosen to deliberately allow an untrue version of events in order to protect.  

13/09/2012 at 13:23

The trouble was Hillsborough had fencing around which happened a lot but ultimately meant that the people trapped couldn't get out on to the pitch - I can't remember why they were erected - I know that Arsenal refused and from then on they were not allowed to hold FA Cup semi finals at the ground -

Edited: 13/09/2012 at 13:24
13/09/2012 at 14:07

I remember reading that the relatives of some of the victims weren't even allowed to touch their loved ones -  one mother found her son in the "morgue" and just wanted to put her arms around him, sit with him for a bit, and she wasn't allowed. It's no wonder people are still in so much pain over Hillsborough; it was a terrible accident that was so badly handled in so many ways.

The British government has had many apologies to make over the years. It doesn't bring back the victims, but I hope it brings some peace to the families left behind.

One thing I will never understand is why on earth anyone still buys the Sun.

JPenno    pirate
13/09/2012 at 14:14
runningowl wrote (see)
The ground had a safety certificate. The problem with it is it was done in 1979 with no statute of limitation even tho there had been changes made to leppings lane and there had been concerns the previous year.

Bare in mind the ground ie the stand had held game after game with equal and in case of a Sheffield derby more fans. The problem came when the combination of very poor policing and the unfortunate lateness of fans. Loads delayed on the motorway not just from pubs

According to the Taylor report - the ground did not have a valid Safety Certificate as the ground had been altered since its issue

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/taylor.shtm

 

13/09/2012 at 15:13

One of the problems of looking back so many years at events like this is that many people of today do not understand how something like this could have happened.  Today at major events there are command and control centres, cctv looking at everything, all the police and other security staff equipped with sophisticated communications.  Probably lots of people under 40 or so just wouldn't recognise how things were done years ago.  That lessons have come from this awful disaster are a testament to the values that most people hold dear

Bad decisions were made at the time by quite a few people but they would have been made in good faith from what they knew, the crime is the deliberate deception that took place afterwards and I do think that especially where some of those people are still in positions of authority they should be subject to some sort of action.

Do you know 60% of football supporters still enter stadiums in the 30 minutes before kick off?

13/09/2012 at 15:56
Grendel3 wrote (see)

The trouble was Hillsborough had fencing around which happened a lot but ultimately meant that the people trapped couldn't get out on to the pitch - I can't remember why they were erected - I know that Arsenal refused and from then on they were not allowed to hold FA Cup semi finals at the ground -

They were erected as a reaction to all the hooliganism and pitch invasions that had been happening up and down the country.

I remember standing on the terraces the first match after they'd been erected at the old Baseball Ground and thinking how the hell am I going to get out of here if there's a problem .

I agree with Cake that, sadly, it could have happened at any ground in the 1980s.

13/09/2012 at 15:58

Not surprising.    On the rare occasion I go these days I wouldn't get there more than 5 minutes before kick off now - there's never any pre-match atmosphere and as you've got a numbered seat no point in getting there to get a spot.   In the days of packed terracing I'd probably get in earlier - hard to think back but maybe 30 minutes before ko.   

JPenno    pirate
13/09/2012 at 16:00
JF50 wrote (see)

One of the problems of looking back so many years at events like this is that many people of today do not understand how something like this could have happened.  Today at major events there are command and control centres, cctv looking at everything, all the police and other security staff equipped with sophisticated communications.  Probably lots of people under 40 or so just wouldn't recognise how things were done years ago.  That lessons have come from this awful disaster are a testament to the values that most people hold dear

Bad decisions were made at the time by quite a few people but they would have been made in good faith from what they knew, the crime is the deliberate deception that took place afterwards and I do think that especially where some of those people are still in positions of authority they should be subject to some sort of action.

Do you know 60% of football supporters still enter stadiums in the 30 minutes before kick off?

If you have pre allocated seating Why would you enter the ground any earlier? The majority of the ones inside Anfield earlier than this are corporate clients having meals or the tourists on Thomas Cook match breaks

There is no pre match entertainment, very limited facilities and the teams come out to warm up 30 mins before kick off. not much point being in earlier

The prices inside Anfield are high for food and drink.

Better off supporting the local businesses with your custom and then take your seat prior to kick off.

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