If we all lived within our means and said no to debt..

surely it is a good thing

21 to 40 of 143 messages
06/05/2011 at 09:01

This is a tricky one and needs more deliberation. Srsly.

I have worked for a bank and (shock) they are only interested in reaping income from you, me and everybody. In practise this means complicated numbers games - If I take on 100 customers will the revenue I generate fom the god risk ones make me more than the losses I make on the bad ones.

The banks know fairly precisely how many customers out of each tranche they take on will go bad, but they target them anyway, with sophisticated systems like you wouldn't believe. If you gave me your postcode I could tell you pretty much exactly what your socio-demographic profile is and even what your house "probably" looks like and what the character of you and your neighbours is.

So, banks milk customers for revenue and employ every trick they can to eke out that extra farthing, whilst all the while trumpeting how much they give YOU and how marvellous their customer service is.

On top of that its a competitive market and the multiplicity of choice of product is bewildering and you need to shop around very carefully to find good, lasting deals.

So, you need to be smart and do your research and above all do not over-commit yourself, which can be difficult against all the pressures organisations put people under plus the general expectations of a consumerist society.

Thats on a personal basis.

On a national basis you could make an excellent case for saying that the 10 years prior to 2008 saw unparalleled personal prosperity funded largely by the credit bubble. If the credit bubble hadn't occurred, "growth" would have been lower and personal prosperity would have been lower. Since the crunch we have reaped the whirlwind on a national and personal basis.

So, less credit means slower growth and lower net prosperity. More credit risks bubbles which go on to pop and more boom and bust economcs - take your pick.

The job of govt is to steer between the two options - some like Canada and Germany have apparently succeeded, others like Ireland, Greece etc have followed the money and are now paying the price.

ps send me your postcode and I'll tell you all about you and your neighbours  

Edited: 06/05/2011 at 09:03
06/05/2011 at 09:02
STU - wrote (see)
Hannabelle - the economy demands consumers doesn't it. It wants to sell more and more of it's goods doesn't it?  If we all lived within our means and demand for goods tailed off  as a result , would the economy accept a state of reduced growth or no growth at all simply because we are living within our means? It just does not work like that. It will prefer folk to go into debt rather than stop buying by it's nature.

Well the goal of many retailers is "increased market share" - that assumes the market is actually finite rather than something which can be increased and their aim is to capture more of it from their competitors. It's a slightly different way of looking at things.

06/05/2011 at 09:03

Stu - I love the way you talk about the economy as a living entity, with thoughts and desires.

Plenty of us consume plenty of goods without resorting to debt, and as I said above if people weren't in debt and freed up their interest payments each month to spend then they probably would spend them on consumer items, thus there would still be plenty of money being spent.  Thus even without debt there would still be plenty of consumption.

Surely we have just been through a period of no growth (in fact, negative growth) with the recession and we are coming out of it again into a period of small growth - the economic cycle of recession and periods of growth has happened over and over, all over the globe forever!

What about the losses made from the overindebted defaulting on debt?  This is a factor taken into consideration in all lending institutions, so debt itself isn't seen as a great thing by "the economy".

06/05/2011 at 09:07
Yes Screamy -   thing is that by its nature our economy will fuck itself up anyway.  It is the big banks and corporations activity that is crippling the world. We ordinary folk are asked to pay for their mistakes yet the economy demands consumers. It is full of contradictions and flaws. The obsession with growth  shows how blind these folk are to reality and true economics
06/05/2011 at 09:10
STU - wrote (see)
Yes Screamy -   thing is that by its nature our economy will fuck itself up anyway.  It is the big banks and corporations activity that is crippling the world. We ordinary folk are asked to pay for their mistakes yet the economy demands consumers. It is full of contradictions and flaws. The obsession with growth  shows how blind these folk are to reality and true economics

Well I certainly wouldn't disagree with most of that Stu.
06/05/2011 at 09:11
A few years ago I decided that I wanted a Nikon D3. I could have bought it, but I decided to get a terramundi pot, started making my own lunch and put the £4 a day I'd spend in the pot.

A year or so later I bought a D700 - there's not enough difference between the D700 and the D3 to warrant the £1,200 difference. That was the first time I'd saved for anything in ages. If I wanted something, I bought it.

You can't take money with you, so if you've got it, spend it. If you haven't got it, Wonga.com or Borrow.com are most certainly not for you.


Johnny BlazeGL52 2BE. Demographise me!
Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
06/05/2011 at 09:12

Took you to page 2 to mention big banks & corporations that are crippling the world......

You really are starting to believe the crap you are watching on the internet aren't you ?

Must be really tough waking up every morning, Knowing that your little world is going to be full of crap again, and that we are all condemned ...

every thought of waking up and thinking what a great day I am alive, I could go for a run, I could go to work and be creative ?

I'm not ossesed with growth (well apart from my waistline) btw

06/05/2011 at 09:16
Hannabelle those running the economy do have thoughts and ideas .  Without society we do not have an economy. The economy acts and evolves in particular ways related to the social structure. It "functions" . The ideas driving the present economy do not sit well with the needs of people and the planet. It will change either because too many folk will suffer and seek change or we act and change it's nature before too much damage will occur. Besides it is not unusual to treat an institution as a living functioning body and society in general.
06/05/2011 at 09:20
DTXS - I read allsorts on the net good and bad. Thing is I think and try to make informed decisions alway up for further scrutiny. You on the other hand open your head and let the status quo tip what it wants you to believe inside your head before closing it and your mind again. I know what i would sooner do-lol
Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
06/05/2011 at 09:20
Be miserable all the time !!!
Edited: 06/05/2011 at 09:21
Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
06/05/2011 at 09:21
ps I have never called anyone a Nazi because they didn't subscribe to my view
06/05/2011 at 09:24
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)
ps I have never called anyone a Nazi because they didn't subscribe to my view

I said  some of the (your) views were neo nazi. You imply I am somehow dellusional and don't understand stuff -some kind of half wit who accepts all he reads. Aint much difference that calling someone's views neo nazi is it? -lol
Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
06/05/2011 at 09:25
Think I called you a miserable sod.
06/05/2011 at 09:26

Intermanaut

Bright Young Things

Well educated young singles paying high rents to live in smart inner city apartments

You're probably a professional, technologically literate and earn a fair wad.

Close?

06/05/2011 at 09:26
that as well
Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
06/05/2011 at 09:27

Now why should my living with in my means be so wrong, I listed all the ways I generate work (just off round the corner to the bakery to get bread for lunch, Real jobs in the local economy).

Perhaps if I had credit cards maxed out you would be happier ?

06/05/2011 at 09:27
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)

Took you to page 2 to mention big banks & corporations that are crippling the world......

You really are starting to believe the crap you are watching on the internet aren't you ?

Must be really tough waking up every morning, Knowing that your little world is going to be full of crap again, and that we are all condemned ...

every thought of waking up and thinking what a great day I am alive, I could go for a run, I could go to work and be creative ?

I'm not ossesed with growth (well apart from my waistline) btw


I agree with that too Dave.

I certainly think that at some point you have to let all that crap go, accept the way of the world and just live your own life as best you can.

Politicians will always be at best, self serving at worst, corrupt and bankers will always be greedy, Britain will always send arms (and aid) to places it shouldn't and there will always be rich and poor. Footballers (and Simon Cowell) will always be paid too much.

I recommend reading a book called  "The F*k it Guide to Life - it will make you feel a whole lot better.

Edited: 06/05/2011 at 09:28
06/05/2011 at 09:27
ps the number 11 is important.
06/05/2011 at 09:30

I don't see that the economy demands we get into debt.

I spend most of what I earn, saving for holidays and extras.  I put nearly all of my income back into the economy by buying food, clothes, holidays, bits and pieces, stuff, whatever.....  my only debt is my mortgage.

I don't have everything just because I want it, I decide whether what I want is worth giving up something else for, or saving for.

I don't feel any pressure at all to get into debt.

06/05/2011 at 09:31

Ooh JB - do me, do me! - UB5 4SG

And because I know what you're likely to come back with let me tell you we have our groceries delivered by Ocado so we are FAR better than any of our neighbours

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