If we all lived within our means and said no to debt..

surely it is a good thing

41 to 60 of 137 messages
06/05/2011 at 09:42
STU - wrote (see)
 screamy - i do not accept that that has to be the case and we just accept it. It will get to a point where life will be intollerable for too many and a new way will be sought. I follow the ideas of The Zeitgeist Movement because it is trying to offer a more sustainable way of life. Some of their ideas are pretty radical but radical is what is needed if we want our kids to have a better life. There may not be another way but I alays think it is worth seeking one.


As a realist I think you accept it and learn to enjoy life, or you drive yourself demented for the rest of your time on this planet.

If you really are of the second persuasion then your best course is to actively become involved in trying to bring about change through involvement in politics. Otherwise you shouldn't spend your  - ultimately brief - life obsessing about this sort of stuff or you will just end up miserable.

Zen rather than Zeitgeist...

Edited: 06/05/2011 at 09:47
06/05/2011 at 09:45
STU - wrote (see)
 and condemning our children  to a lot of misery and poverty that will get worse-simple as. I cannot turn a blind eye and ignore what I have learned


I haven't condemed my children to a lot of misery and poverty !

We have educated them, Supported them and set them out on the world. It is up to them now.

But as I said yesterday 2 have graduated and own thier own homes, have good jobs (well jobs they enjoy) and the 2 others both have job offers for the future.

And you are turning a blind eye, Did you vote for change yesterday ? are you active in your area attempting to make a change ? or are you belly aching on the internet and doing nothing ?

06/05/2011 at 09:55

Screamy - convivial homeowners

Well paid

professionl

couples

late 30s early 40s

young families

well educated

diverse urban rather than suburbs

06/05/2011 at 09:58
Screamapillar wrote (see)
STU - wrote (see)
 screamy - i do not accept that that has to be the case and we just accept it. It will get to a point where life will be intollerable for too many and a new way will be sought. I follow the ideas of The Zeitgeist Movement because it is trying to offer a more sustainable way of life. Some of their ideas are pretty radical but radical is what is needed if we want our kids to have a better life. There may not be another way but I alays think it is worth seeking one.


As a realist I think you accept it and learn to enjoy life, or you drive yourself demented for the rest of your time on this planet.

If you really are of the second persuasion then your best course is to actively become involved in trying to bring about change through involvement in politics. Otherwise you shouldn't spend your  - ultimately brief - life obsessing about this sort of stuff or you will just end up miserable.

Zen rather than Zeitgeist...


screamy I am involved at a certain level on the net and want to get further involved with TZM. I actually get something out of my involvement and actually enjoy debates with silly sods like DTXS. I voted for the baest of the evils and best voting system. Nowt else I could do at the mo as far as voting is concerned. If I influence one or two or simply get folk to question stuff that is reward. Thankfully I have my garden, book I am writing and am enjoying my running again and enjoy the banter with folk when I go out looking for collectibles too. My life aint too bad and yes I like a good moan at times
06/05/2011 at 10:00
STU - wrote (see)
 debates with silly sods like DTXS.

Is being a "silly sod" and improvement on being a "Nazi" ?

and answer the question, How have I condemned my kids ?

06/05/2011 at 10:04

Thanks JB!

That's much less chavvy than I expected -  mind you they all live on the other side of the main road and some pf them are in a different postcode

06/05/2011 at 10:05
Best left unsaid, actually.
Edited: 06/05/2011 at 10:05
06/05/2011 at 10:08
@Johnny Blaze, very close, yes, but I'd like my "fair wad" to be much, much larger!
06/05/2011 at 10:08

never said you were a nazi I said your views were. Yes "silly sod" is an improvement on calling your views neo Nazi.  You remind me of my dad but you are actually quite funny and entertaining whereas he is not.

folk (including you) condemn their kids if they do not try to sustain the planet and try to stop a destructive ecomomic system as I see it. Of course if the system is the best we can do and will not leave the planet unable to sustain it's inhabitants you will not be condemning them. Depends on how you look at things. I do think I am right in my analysis though-lol

06/05/2011 at 10:11
Oh how patronising
Lee the Pea    pirate
06/05/2011 at 10:33

STU - wrote (see)

folk (including you) condemn their kids if they do not try to sustain the planet and try to stop a destructive ecomomic system as I see it. Of course if the system is the best we can do and will not leave the planet unable to sustain it's inhabitants you will not be condemning them

Stu, this sounds like you read a book with one view on 'how the world is', and now just make blanket assumptions that everyone acts in this manner and is therefore screwing the world over.  What exactly should everyone be doing to 'sustain the planet and stop a destructive economic system'?.  You make it all sound like you do everything right, and no-one else does.  That's how your posts come across anyway.  Debt isn't a good thing, living within your means is, and 'no debt' doesn't correlate to the economy collapsing. 
Edited: 06/05/2011 at 10:35
06/05/2011 at 10:37

Here you go again!

As I said yesterday i fully respect your views but you continue to push this ideology within which there is clearly some merit but its naivety is beyond belief.

Your posts underline your cynisim and blinkered view that we are all doomed and future generations are going to suffer and you read like a Daily Mail journalist, constantly pushing your views and failing to accept that maybe, just maybe your "loony lefty" was of thinking aren't the solution either. 

NO ONE is forcing anyone to do anything, we do have control on a daily basis, people who are choosing to live outside of their means are doing so themselves, no one is forcing them to rack up debt on a credit card and I find it interesting that you say that you are currenlty working your way out of a hole that you put yourself in and yet now you are pushing this view that we should live within our means blah blah blah, you sound like a broken record who cannot see the bigger picture of a world that has always and will continue to operate in these economic circles.

Stop watching armageddon movies, they are doing you no good!  

06/05/2011 at 10:38
I was basically trying to say what LtP just has! x post
Lee the Pea    pirate
06/05/2011 at 10:39
 I like your post better though, hehehe
06/05/2011 at 10:46

and I wish Stu would understand that not all debt is bad.

You have a very fixed   DEBT = BAD..

That is wrong    UN-SERVICABLE DEBT = BAD

that is different.

   We bought this house 7 years ago, and we went to apply for a mortgage, You would not believe how much the Halifax were prepared to lend us. Way more than we wanted, or thought we could afford.

I can understand that stupid, ignorant or mathematically challenged could be sucked in. 

But who is responsible for stopping us taking on that debt ?  US,   Me & You.

Suppose because of the time of the month I am in debt to my credit card company as the bill hasn't arrived, is that bad debt ? or is that good debt ? or even is that clever debt ? as the money I would have used to buy things is sitting in my savings account all month earning admittedly poor interest, But all the same I have an interest free loan for the month that has actually made me money.

So is that a bad debt ?

Lee the Pea    pirate
06/05/2011 at 10:55
...and even better if you can get a credit card that earns you money on purchases etc., if you can pay it off in full at the end of each month.  You can definitely make debt work in your favour, as long it is servicable debt, as you say.  I'm not currently making debt work in my favour, but that's my own stupid fault
06/05/2011 at 11:00
I have M&S money, Usually get about £40 worth of vouchers ever quarter.
06/05/2011 at 11:03
Screamapillar wrote (see)

You don't have to live like a pauper - holiday in Greece not Florida; wear M&S Limited Collection shoes not Manolo Blahniks; have the set menu or 2 courses instead of 3 when you eat out - you can buy a bottle of wine and a dessert at the supermarket on the way home if you really want to; take your own lunch to work...   

There are literally hundreds of ways to leave more within your means  - and keep the wheels of the economy turning - without being at all deprived.


Unfortunately, after mortgage payments (on a modest flat), bills, food (never eat out) and club subs I'm left with £25 per week to live on.  I consider that deprived.  I work full-time.   I am looking for a new job now I've moved.
06/05/2011 at 11:03

The whole point is ultimately whether you can afford to pay the debt off - either in the short or long term.

Our mortgage is nearly paid. My very prudent OH (his dad was a loans manager in a bank!) has the funds to pay it off whenever he wants to but  doing so wouldn't be of any particular benefit to us while the interest rates are so low.

In other words, ironic though it may be, he is choosing to stay "in debt" for the time being.

I realise we are lucky in some respects to be in this situaton  as much of this has depeneded on being in continuous full time employment (in other respects we are not, we work hard and are not frivolous with our spending) but the point is, if you are savvy, you can make all this stuff work in your favour rather than against you. 

06/05/2011 at 11:04

Lee -I have read many books and have tried to look at the reasearch. I have studied Sociology and Social Anthropology too. I am aware of quite a few viws. I simply do not see Capitalism as sustaining the planet and accepting no growth.  All I have to go on is my knowledge and experience and I try to be open to other views -it is all we can do. I would hate to be set in my ways or mind but from some perspectives I could be accused of that. Equally I could claim that folk are brainwashed by the present system and it's ideology . All good stuff for debate.

JW - I think there is hope so long as folk look for an alternative. I like TZM others may like and find something else. I am left wing but I do not think Socalism or Communism is the answer anymore. The problem is global and setting up an elite will cause its own problems in that system.  My views have moved towards TZM although I personally am unsure how transition would occur. If in a few years time things have not gone pretty awful for an increasing number I will concede but all I ask is watch this space.  Part of me wants to be wrong and I would like to see greater prosperty for all of us -I dunno.

On debt - if we all lived within our means and avoided debt , again what would happen to the present economy. Most have fudged the answer or (maybe with some justification) tried to change the question. Maybe not all have studied Sociology and Social Anthropology or even Economics  , So I ask where do your views come from -how have you been informed? How many have listened to any of The Zeitgeist Movement stuff?  Criicise it and it's views but hear what they are first, that is what I would say.   

Edited: 06/05/2011 at 11:06
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