Lord Rennard (vs Clegg)

Should he stay or should he go?

1 to 20 of 158 messages
20/01/2014 at 10:22

If it's within the Lib Dems' constitution to remove the whip at their own discretion,  then they should, without doubt.   They should also consider removing it if any apology that arises is deemed insignificant or insincere.

If Rennard has the legal right to retain his whip, then Clegg is in a spot of bother.  What can he do?  If I was Clegg, I think I'd remove the whip anyway - and let the guy sue.  I would then go back and review the party's constitution.

 

20/01/2014 at 11:01

The BBC seem to be whipping up a frenzy about it. What did he do anyway? I guess he's no DLT or he would be up in court.

20/01/2014 at 11:01

It's difficult because it all hinges on who you believe, Rennard who says he is innocent or the women who say he isn't.

As I understand it, he is accused of "unwanted sexual advances" and "inappropriate touching" an inch further than that and he would be under investigation for sexual assault but he has stopped just short of crossing that line - possibly deliberately, who knows?

While his actions may have stopped short of criminal surely it doesn't mean that he should be exempt from some sort of employment tribunal, the same as anyone else accused of the similar acts? Is that sort of investigation permitted in political parties?

 

 

 

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 11:04
20/01/2014 at 11:06

Is there a grey area for inappropriate touching?

20/01/2014 at 11:12

Well this it isn't it? If he gropes bums or boobs he's bang to rights but what if he just touches a shoulder or puts his arm around someone? It might be as creepy as hell and make someone very uncomfortable but it does it constitute a criminal offence?

I had a bloke make lewd comments at me at a Christmas party. I reported him and he got disciplined. I'm thinking this is this same sort of thing we are talking about here.

Thing is, it happened in public so he had to admit to it and apologise. 

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 11:21
20/01/2014 at 11:27

I remember a girl I worked with who would go at length about how she cut her pubic hair and such like. When I got a promotion ahead of her boyfriend she reported me for saying she had nice legs

20/01/2014 at 11:33
Screamapillar wrote (see)

 

I had a bloke make lewd comments at me at a Christmas party. I reported him and he got disciplined. I'm thinking this is this same sort of thing we are talking about here.

 

Bit isn't the issue he hasn't been disciplined ? Therefore nothing to apologise for ? as was said on TV last night, If he does make an apology what is he apologising for ?...

An apology is an admission of guilt, But the party investigation hasn't found him guilty of anything....

Thank feck Nick Clegg will never be in charge

(ps Anyone else think Danny Alexander doesn't look old enough to be out alone ?)

20/01/2014 at 12:27
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)
Screamapillar wrote (see)

 

I had a bloke make lewd comments at me at a Christmas party. I reported him and he got disciplined. I'm thinking this is this same sort of thing we are talking about here.

 

Bit isn't the issue he hasn't been disciplined ? Therefore nothing to apologise for ? as was said on TV last night, If he does make an apology what is he apologising for ?...

An apology is an admission of guilt, But the party investigation hasn't found him guilty of anything....

 

Yes, that's exactly the point. If anything did go on with Rennard it went on in private.

However, the conclusion of Alistair Webster QC who investigated the matter was this:

"He said there was broadly credible evidence dating back several years of "behaviour which violated the personal space and autonomy of the complainants" and recommended the peer should apologise as a matter of "common manners".

 

 

20/01/2014 at 12:41

Polls suggest that the Lib Dems are trailing in 4th place behind UKIP on 8% at the moment so you are right.

 

 

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 12:44
20/01/2014 at 12:45
Flob wrote (see)

 

Rennard May or may not be guilty but all of this doesn't make the party look very electable.

No, They have said he has no case to answer and is not guilty

Cake    pirate
20/01/2014 at 12:47

There are a couple of side stories to this one in that it's been should that some of the allegations have been made in the past and the Lib Dem's did not do anything about that. and also Lord Rennard is the Lib Dem's version of Peter Mandleson so if he decides not to tow the line quitely then it's open war in the Lib Dem's he a power broker for them.

Reading the fine print of the internal enquiry it's a bit of a joke. Basically saying we can't proof intent but there may be a case to answer for and he should apologes. clear as mud basically. If it was me I would remove the whip and see what happened. Clegg could actually show himeself to be a leader for once.  

20/01/2014 at 12:48
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)
Flob wrote (see)

 

Rennard May or may not be guilty but all of this doesn't make the party look very electable.

No, They have said he has no case to answer and is not guilty

But that's not what Alistair Webster has said. More on his view:

"I viewed Lord Rennard, from the weight of the evidence submitted, as being someone who would wish to apologise to those whom he had made to feel uncomfortable, even if he had done so inadvertently. I would consider it to be common manners."

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 12:50
20/01/2014 at 12:49

So he is guilty then ?

 

Make up your mind

20/01/2014 at 12:54
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)

So he is guilty then ?

 

Make up your mind

 

It's not for me to say one way or the other but what do you think this says?:

"I viewed Lord Rennard, from the weight of the evidence submitted, as being someone who would wish to apologise to those whom he had made to feel uncomfortable, even if he had done so inadvertently. I would consider it to be common manners."

The point is even if his intent was innocent he still needs to realise that his behaviour was felt to be inappropriate by these women.

Not to apologise is complete boorishness.

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 12:55
Cake    pirate
20/01/2014 at 13:02

Dave if I was one of the ladies involved in this and if I was willing to put up with the discomfort, I would be tempted to make this a legal matter and not just a internal Lib Dem issue. He's already distroyed some of there hopes and standing with the party a little. Best case is he's acted like a t*sser.

20/01/2014 at 13:25

Flob. I'm not saying you are a twat but you should apolgise to us all for being one

Is that the way the LibDems are going?

20/01/2014 at 13:30

There's another possible row brewing

20/01/2014 at 13:33

Is this a case of if a man puts his arm round someone, If he's George Clooney it's cute but if he looks like Rennard it's creepy. Just seen his picture on TV. He's no George Clooney!!

20/01/2014 at 13:44
XFR Bear wrote (see)

There's another possible row brewing

Well anyone who uses the term "bro" needs to be removed IMO - never mind the other alleged transgressions.

Philomena wrote (see)

Is this a case of if a man puts his arm round someone, If he's George Clooney it's cute but if he looks like Rennard it's creepy. Just seen his picture on TV. He's no George Clooney!!

Unwanted attention is unwanted attention whoever it comes from. If you find George Clooney attractive it stands to reason you won't mind if he puts his arm round you. If you don't (I don't) you aren't going to be comfortable with it.

It's all about consent.

Edited: 20/01/2014 at 13:45
20/01/2014 at 14:02

No evidence of criminal wrongdoing so he's not a predatory Savile type. Short of that, he seems to be somewhere on the scale from creepy groping letch to a little more tactile than the ladies liked.

I suspect the fuss in itself has made him sit down and think. But I don't buy this stuff that he should apologize because the ladies think he did wrong. They could be overreacting to something entirely innocent. Who knows?

I often think that the endless demand for apologies is more about manipulation and point-scoring than genuine redress.

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