Paying smokers to quit

what the....!

41 to 54 of 54 messages
Nam
01/07/2009 at 16:28
LIVERBIRD wrote (see)

I've seen several people put their own needs very much before that of their kids. Where my mum lives many of the people round there sort out the fags, booze and weed first and then see what's left to spend on food.....


May of our project workers work in 'Communities First' and 'Flying Start' designated target areas.  These schemes may have other names in England but basically those geographical areas which feature high in the various indeces in our case the Welsh Index of Multiple Deprivation... and there'll be similar for England.

But it's exactly in those areas where people live on fast food, microwavable dinners, high alcohol consumption, high smoking rates etc.

I can see what Seren is saying about putting your kids first but sadly people don't.  People blame "poverty" but it's such an arbitrary argument...  All these activities or behaviour are hugely expensive.  People understand the dangers and do it anyway, so it's a matter of priorities rather than lack of understanding...

But I also know my opinion is out of line with some of our health promotions people.  I just have a problem when money is being thrown at problems when the expensive solution doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
01/07/2009 at 16:43
Completely agree with Nam. Called Sure Start in our area.
LIVERBIRD    pirate
01/07/2009 at 17:02

My favourite pet hate is people claiming that they can't afford to eat healthily and then they go and spend £15 getting two (large) Big Mac meals and two Happy Meals for tea.

Give ME £15 and I'll make you three different nutritious meals for a family of four for that and I'll give you the change.

Nam
01/07/2009 at 17:09

Or when people feed their kids a load of crap, the local authority spends a fortune on providing good food in schools just for the parents to pass pie and chips through the school gates.

Another favourite is people who receive disability living allowance for the physical and mental consequences of their alcoholism, just to spend the money on more booze...

oxymoron    pirate
01/07/2009 at 18:00

the benefits/allowances system generally is quite insane, easy to criticise,  but not so easy to solve, i guess.

not a week goes by without someone who works for me asking to be fired so that they can claim benefits without a delay.

Edited: 01/07/2009 at 18:00
Aitch!    pirate
01/07/2009 at 21:47
Re the poor nutrition.... My Mum knows a consultant at the hospital and because my Mum is (or was as she's recently retired) a feeding advisor helping new Mum's with feeding (breast is best) this consultant told her a story about when he worked in hospital in Scotland. A woman came to A & E with a broken wrist. She had an 8 week old baby with her and he was chatting away and asked how the baby was getting on. She chatted back and then said 'oh he loves mars bar smoothies'! This woman had been making smoothies with cows milk and mars bars and giving it to a baby of 8 weeks old!!!!
01/07/2009 at 21:53
Having been made redundant in April (i'mnow back in work) i can assure EVERYONE that living on benefits is NOT AN OPTION for anyone who's ever actually worked and earned a wage. If you can survive on jobseekers then bloody good luck to you, you are clearly a better financial wizard than me! It may sound like easy street but they can keep their benefits system and handouts, as i can assure you its no way to live.
01/07/2009 at 21:59

I think what goes against the grain is that druggies and smokers are choosing to do something which could kill them, whereas many people out there have illnesses and problems which are NOT THEIR FAULT and which they frequently struggle to get treatment for. Many people see that as an incorrect allocation of resources. 

01/07/2009 at 22:07

I work for this health board. Nothing surprises me. They spent thousands installing loud speakers outside the main hospital saying that he site is strictly no smoking. Funnily enough, patients and visitors are standing under the loud speakers....smoking! What a stupid bloody scheme. 

01/07/2009 at 22:32
Nam wrote (see)


May of our project workers work in 'Communities First' and 'Flying Start' designated target areas.  These schemes may have other names in England but basically those geographical areas which feature high in the various indeces in our case the Welsh Index of Multiple Deprivation... and there'll be similar for England.

But it's exactly in those areas where people live on fast food, microwavable dinners, high alcohol consumption, high smoking rates etc.

I can see what Seren is saying about putting your kids first but sadly people don't.  People blame "poverty" but it's such an arbitrary argument...  All these activities or behaviour are hugely expensive.  People understand the dangers and do it anyway, so it's a matter of priorities rather than lack of understanding...

But I also know my opinion is out of line with some of our health promotions people.  I just have a problem when money is being thrown at problems when the expensive solution doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Spot on Nam. I'm trying to get into health promotion research at the moment - my background is in health psychology, and it's surprising how many so called 'initiatives' fail to take into account how people perceive and think about these things. Take smoking for example - people are well aware that it causes lung disease, but choose to do it anyway because they enjoy it - and as far as they're concerned, they're willing to take that risk rather than give up that pleasure. A person will only give up smoking when they see the benefit to them as outweighing the cost, and this applies to pretty much any health-related behaviour.

What many people don't realise is that what consitutes a 'benefit' for one person may not matter remotely for another. A person who gives up smoking because they want to get fitter has to value fitness in some way; if they really don't give a toss about fitness, that's not going to be an incentive.

 Aitch, I shouldn't laugh but... Mars bar smoothies?? Bloody hell  
 

oxymoron    pirate
01/07/2009 at 23:22
Just Run wrote (see)
Having been made redundant in April (i'mnow back in work) i can assure EVERYONE that living on benefits is NOT AN OPTION for anyone who's ever actually worked and earned a wage. If you can survive on jobseekers then bloody good luck to you, you are clearly a better financial wizard than me! It may sound like easy street but they can keep their benefits system and handouts, as i can assure you its no way to live.

i'm not sure if you're directing that at me, i am not making any judgement on how hard/easy it is to survive on benefits alone. i'm just saying that it is a frequent occurrence for people to request the sack rather than resign so that they can claim their benefits. i also offered a job (admittedly only for 21 hours per week) to a chap last week who turned it down because it didn't represent much of an increase over the benefits he currently claims. any system that allows behaviour like that is clearly not working as it should.
02/07/2009 at 06:33

Just Run's example is fairly common - benefits are absolutely no support to someone just made redundant. They do not replace a wage short-term. They have to be used as a long term option with a strategy for maximising what you can claim. That strategy does not involve working more or staying healthy

 Do you remember that Wife Swap woman Lizzie Bardsley who was on £38000 because she had many children, neither she or partner worked, smoked excessively and the children had severe asthma for which they claimed invalidty or carer's allowance?  He claimed depression from  a bereavement  and they lived well off benefits. 

The kids were very poorly from smoking but her benefits were tied to them being ill. There was no incentive to stop. Whilst this may seem like a great plan to reverse that 'incentive scheme' I suspect it's open to abuse and if you wish to stop, that desire has to be a big committment from you not a financial motivation.  Remove the financial incentives to keep smoking......... by all means but don't make a more complicated one !   It creates a huge administrative burden and is impossible to police that it has had any effect.

My personal observation of benefit claimants having met many in the course of work is that a great many were using the system to avoid responsibility for working......it didn't prop them up in a tricky time and they often led lives that were irresponsible in other ways whilst society supported them to do so. There are also a smaller group who genuinely needed benfits (invalidity/carer's etc) who  would love not to need the benefit but ill health/disability forced them to depend on it.  It annoyed me that they got associated with the same attitude as the first group

LIVERBIRD    pirate
02/07/2009 at 06:41
Just Run wrote (see)
 It may sound like easy street but they can keep their benefits system and handouts, as i can assure you its no way to live.

Sorry to hear that you lost your job JR and I'm pleased that you've now found work.

I was wondering if you have a spouse and children, because some friends of mine have recently found themselves in the same position and he has NO interest in going to work at all, mostly because of what they are "entitled to" on benefits. (And partly because he is a lazy swine who has been flying under the radar at his company doing no work for years anyway) They are doing perfectly fine on their benefits and have booked a holiday with the child tax credits for the end of summer. She is very careful not to earn too much to affect their "entitlements" too.

I'm really glad you found you difficult to live on the money because my understanding of it is that it is SUPPOSED to be difficult, to stop people choosing it as an option. Clearly, you are exactly the sort of person for which the system was invented for. Something went wrong, you needed some benefits in the short term and found work to get out of the cycle. Nobody would ever complain about that, especially as you're now paying back INTO that system which will hopefully help those who next find themselves on harder times.

What is particularly galling is someone saying "we had a wonderful walk in the park this afternoon / played tennis / sat in the garden" when your husband is working 7 days a week paying for it, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it because they are not breaking the law.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
02/07/2009 at 06:42
Xpost with Pig. Morning Pig!

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