Snow is here.. time to spot those houses with poor roof insulation

Seren...  don't be fooled just because you have a Building Regs certificate.   Have a look at these photos.. this is a roof conversion, with a 'valid' Building Regs completion certificate.  I think the Building Control officer must have been blind or simply couldn't be bothered to look at the work properly.  It didn't even have a fire door!

The steel is second hand, there was no structural engineers calculations for it.  There is no padstone to spread the load on the party wall, no fire protection and no Party Wall notice.

This is the roof insulation. Rubbish.  It wouldn't comply with Building Regs 20 years ago let alone now.  

The owner of this property was unaware of these problems and is now taking legal action against both the building contractor and the Building Control inspector.

Keggi wrote (see)

DTHAS I have the condensation on the inside of my roof as in your picture. The issue is my house is 260 years old with original stone flags that have been "turned" in the past so would fitting ventilating roof tiles work and can you get them looking like old flags?

p.s this is the best thread on here in a longtime

Is the house Listed..?  If so, then definitely not.

Installing ventilating tiles in a stone flag roof would be unsightly and inadvisable.  If you have gable walls, perhaps you can install 9" air bricks in the gables to get cross ventilation?   Can you show me a few photos of the house and roof..?

I'll try to find a photo of poorly installed roof coversion insulation.  The two main products used are by Celotex and Kingspan.  Both are excellent products but they need to be installed with considerable care and accuracy.   Simply having the correct thickness of boards won't guarantee that they will work.  This winter, have a look around at houses with roof conversions and they will almost always be the ones that have the snow melt first.

I was suprised when as part of having the loft converted ...we were told we had to have the beam downstairs uncovered so that it could be checked............I couldn't see why as that was done prior tyo us moving into the house.( terrace house 2 rooms knocked into 1)

 was so glad that they made us do it as the attempt that was done was already bowing the ceiling and was 2 piece of thin corroded metal fixed together and was only supported on a n internal wall........

so we had to have a massive beam fitted there first as well as some more upstairs

Have a look at this thread from 2010..   I put a sequence of photos showing the same house over a period of days..  the house has a roof conversion and the snow melt is clearly visible.

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/clubhouse/spot-the-houses-with-poor-insulation/168602.html

This is particularly good example...

I have several photos of this house...   

seren nos wrote (see)

I was suprised when as part of having the loft converted ...we were told we had to have the beam downstairs uncovered so that it could be checked............I couldn't see why as that was done prior tyo us moving into the house.( terrace house 2 rooms knocked into 1)

 

 was so glad that they made us do it as the attempt that was done was already bowing the ceiling and was 2 piece of thin corroded metal fixed together and was only supported on a n internal wall........

so we had to have a massive beam fitted there first as well as some more upstairs

That's really good Seren.   I've seen overloaded walls when this hasn't been looked at.

Thanks for in depth answer. I am sure that it's the windows are to blame. It's a housing association, ex council house and they were probably fitted to be as cost effective as possible which means cheap. I come from Poland and my mum has double glazed windows there as well and winters there are so more severe and she has not got this problem. When you touch the window pane it's warm, in my house the window pane is freezing cold. My bed is actually next to the window and when I had only a blind I could feel a draught from the window so had to have extra thick curtains fitted to rectify this problem. Surely if the windows were properly fitted there would be no draught. In my mum's windows when you move the handle to horizontal position it means that the windows are closed but not sealed and when you move it upwards it totally seals it. I haven't got anything like that. I tried to have higher temperatures upstarirs but even though the radiator are fully on it does not seem any more warmer. I think it goes through the roof straightaway. I have had surveyers round from the housing association but they always came on the day it was warmer or windy and there was no condensation. I have got a dehumidifier but it uses lots of electricity and the results are meagre to say the least.

Trickle vents and windows that can be 'locked open' will allow some minimal ventilation.   It doesn't sound like yours have either of these...

..and an Orbutt in a Pear Tree wrote (see)

Wilkie - I had a similar issue with a dripping extractor fan. Have you checked the hose that goes between the fan and the outside world? Mine had a loop in it, so the extracted air condensed and settled in the hose until it built up to a level where it started dripping.

In my case, I lifted the hose and about a pint of water poured back into the bathroom

I've since shortened the hose so that the air has a much shorter journey to the outside. Also, I leave the fan running for for a bit longer to dry any condensation.

Any use? 

The hose goes up from the bathroom ceiling to the ridge of the roof, at a very steep angle, so no loops.  I think part of the problem is that it's a long way.  Insulating the hose may help, so I'm going to look into that next.

Dark The Herald Angels Sing wrote (see)

Keggi wrote (see)

DTHAS I have the condensation on the inside of my roof as in your picture. The issue is my house is 260 years old with original stone flags that have been "turned" in the past so would fitting ventilating roof tiles work and can you get them looking like old flags?

p.s this is the best thread on here in a longtime

 

Is the house Listed..?  If so, then definitely not.

Installing ventilating tiles in a stone flag roof would be unsightly and inadvisable.  If you have gable walls, perhaps you can install 9" air bricks in the gables to get cross ventilation?   Can you show me a few photos of the house and roof..?

I'll take some and post for you. It's not listed though 

 

 

 

As Keggi said, the best thread in ages. Some lovely photos there Dark THAS.

When I bought my house in 1991 it was 4 years old, and I was aware of the minor defects. It took me a few years to upgrade the building to be able to comply with the Building Regs that were in place when it was built, in fact even the previous versions.

-Staircase balustrade spindles had gaps too large
-Back door with no safety glass
-Front door and side panels no safety glass

These were fixed over the years, insulation upgraded and windows replaced. I suppose that it helps that I have qualifications similar to DTHAS. However, I do think that a house should get an MOT at points in its life.

it annoys me that you have to pay for surveys when you buy a house.......but they don't seem to ever notice the imnportant things

This reminds me of my old mate who had a long running dispute with the Electricity company where he refused to pay their bills citing the meter as faulty, until winter came and he noticed his bone dry roof when everyone else had snow, his wife had put an electric fire in the loft to prevent frozen pipes and it had been left on for 18 months.

But Dark - you really do need to find a hobby  

seren nos wrote (see)

it annoys me that you have to pay for surveys when you buy a house.......but they don't seem to ever notice the imnportant things

A mortgage valuation isn't a survey.  

You pay for it, but it isn't even done for YOU.  It's done for the mortgage lender so that can assess that the loan is safe in case of default.   If you look at the small print some of them (Halifax being an notable example) even say that they owe you no liability even in the event that the surveyor is negligent.

You don't HAVE to have a survey carried out and statistically about 80-85% of all home buyers rely on their mortgage valuation...  I've often heard people refer to them as "oh.. I'm just having the basic survey carried out by my mortgage lender".  Big mistake.   It's not a building survey at all.   Depending on the amount of the loan, if you are borrowing a relatively small amount in % terms, say 15 or 20%, then the surveyor may not even go inside the property!   He might do what is called a 'drive by' inspection or even a desk top valuation based on comparable sales in the area.

Don't think that you have had a building survey done if all you paid for was the mortgage valuation.  You haven't.

One thing that annoys me about mortgage valuers is that they will never tell the home buyer the answers to the questions they have.  So..  they might see a crack, but won't give any advice or opinion whether it is significant or not.  

Dark The Herald Angels Sing wrote (see)

Wilkie, that may help. Additionally, instal a more powerful extract fan. Is there no option for a shorter route to get the external vent?

There's no shorter route without chopping a hole in the roof (and that wouldn't be much shorter).  I live in a block of flats, so probably wouldn't be allowed to make alterations to the roof.  

The fan was supposed to be able to shift 85 litres of air a minute.  It lasted two weeks before blowing a fuse.

What would be the best way to insulate the hose?

I want some snow. Not fair! 

the surveys i have seen...which were more than the normal have inclusdes statements like................

a house of this age might have problems with damp and i would recommend an expert being employed yto assess it

a house this age might have a problem with electrics and i would recommend that an expert is found etc....

 all a pile of crap