Teachers

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01/04/2013 at 00:19
Our schooling and the education system in general are not in god shape, we are falling behind other economies and we need change. If he has got it wrong where are the alternative suggestions
02/04/2013 at 09:11

With apologies to Muttley, I despise unions & strikers. I could understand it if we lived in a bygone age with no workers rights, but we don't. That said I fully expect teachers to go out on strike in much the same way that as certain as summer follows spring the tube drivers will be out again soon.
However, here's a thought, teachers say they work most of the holidays, catching up, planning and so on. So rather than directly disrupt the education of the pupils why not strike for a week at a time, say this week? or the last week of May? 2nd week of August?
Thought not.

cougie    pirate
02/04/2013 at 09:14
Because nobody would see that ?
02/04/2013 at 09:20

thousands of teachers outside Westminster? Trafalgar Square? Hardly invisible.

Tommygun2    pirate
02/04/2013 at 09:36

I agree with peoples right to stike as thats democracy blah blah blah....

I can't see the point in striking theses days other than to piss the general public off.. Can some one point to me where a succesful stike has changes a decision by govenment in recent years..as I can think of one especially involving teachers....As Distin says its almost become an anual event that certain groups go on strike, and as far as I can make out its more to do with their political dogma of the union leaders than actual issues...

02/04/2013 at 09:42
The teachers strike against pensions last year did achieve some changes; the plan to remove independent school teachers from the scheme, for example. That is why the other large teachers union, ATL, are not involved in this latest strike action.
02/04/2013 at 09:54
I don't fully understand why they were striking. I don't agree with striking as it can impact too much on all services, I guess that is what to achieve? To gain attention .
I work for the nhs! When the schools closed we were not allowed paid leave as carers to stay with our children (mine are old enough to leave) and staff were told to make other arrangements, well most child care is linked to school clubs, also shut, they're aren't many alternatives parents can make for thousands of children on the same day who should be at school. Most (not all) opted for unpaid leave, this left the hospital drastically understaffed and services closed, operation lists got cancelled as a result . The impact was huge.
It was very stressful at our end of public service.
I'm also annoyed that I can be fined ??50 for taking my kids out of scool term time, as I'm damaging their learning, yet where are the fines when schools closed at teachers choice? Or to compensate loss of earnings due to their striking.
I don't agree with striking in any sector , I think it's quite selfish , don't even start me on the nurses striking , gahhh ! Lol
02/04/2013 at 10:07

IMHO, the Unions are asking the wrong question.  It's not all about pay/pensions; it's more about workload, physical safety at work (protection from pupils and angry parents), crap curriculum with too much focus on Maths/English (obviously Maths/English are important but some would argue there is too much emphasis on this), no authority to act against unruly behaviour etc.

Also, I don't think putting private against public sector is the answer (I'm private sector).

02/04/2013 at 10:34

Again, the strike is not just about pay and pensions.

02/04/2013 at 10:47

When you take employment you are given various benefits as part of your contract. If your employer changes their mind and wants to change/remove those benefits then I think it only natural to be aggrieved and want to keep what you had. In my experience, many employees and unions are prepared to negotiate but when your employer won't then sometimes you have to withdraw your labour.

If you decided that you would change from 5 to 4 day working but expect the same money I'm fairly sure your employer would be a bit upset - but the other way round is fine!! 

02/04/2013 at 11:00
Dustin wrote (see)

With apologies to Muttley, I despise unions & strikers. I could understand it if we lived in a bygone age with no workers rights, but we don't. .

True that we don't want to put Kids up Chimneys any more, and things have changed, we can all see that, but you have what you have because the Unions got it for you, the holidays, safety and rights you have today would not have happened without them.

I go into battle daily with the likes of Muttley, but I don't forget where we all came from, and with most of the country's business interests in Foreign hands without a Union base, what's to stop us going back?

02/04/2013 at 11:04
The Egyptian Toe wrote (see)

Again, the strike is not just about pay and pensions.


So what is it about? all you've said so far is what it is not about and how you don't like Gove. Everyone everywhere would at sometimes disagree with their boss and at times would like to get rid, however it's not always possible and however much you might not like what he is doing he is the boss and has the right to manage.

02/04/2013 at 12:14

For Dustin and others who don't understand these things, here's a little video that puts it better than I ever could. It's Australian, but the facts remain.

02/04/2013 at 12:26
Andy D wrote (see)
Rickster wrote (see)

There are a lot of people out of work who would love a job. Many people in the private sector have lost their jobs or had to take a pay cut and would love to have some work.

How is this relevant to the question?

I can appreciate the fact that teachers do a vital and very worthwhile job teaching the children of this country, our future society, but they must realise that as part of their job they have a responsibility to those children. Going on strike won't help a child's education.

So this argument suggests that they should not be able to undertake industrial action (as is their right) under any circumstances.

If they really are committed to their jobs they shouldn't go on strike. If you don't like the pay and conditions, get a job in the private sector. See how you like working for a company where your pay rise is based on the financial success of a company.

Why would they, they're teachers. Their job isn't based on achieving financial success so why bring it up. If they feel the terms & conditions of their employment amount to a decrease in benefits then they're entitled to take industrial action.

This is not meant as an assault on public sector workers, as they do a vital job, but there are some professions where strike action is unnacceptable.

I'm not a teacher, and I work in the private sector, but it seems to me the government is just attempting to pit private sector against public sector in order to lower expectations. I.e. My pay's shit, why should anyone else's be better.

My one gripe at teachers is the ballot turn out. They leave themselves open to claims that only a minority of teachers vote for action as overall turn out is less than 50%. I fail to understand why you would not vote for somethiong as important as going on strike.

Strike ballots are more heavily policed than ballots for our 'leaders'. If this ballot is unfair, what can be said about a government that is pushing through the most wide-ranging wrecking of the welfare system and the NHS based on fewer than 11 million votes in a general election? As for public sector and private sector - it would be in the huge interest of those private sector employees not in trade unions to join up now. Union members get better conditions and better pay on average than non-unionised staff. Why should we have a race to the bottom by saying that teachers should be happy with their lot - 'at least they've got jobs'? That to me is looking at things the wrong way up. We should be pulling up the low paid with us, not joining them in the gutter. More power to the teachers - at least they've got the gumption to oppose the wrecking ball Gove, and they're the ones that know what his policies mean on the ground.

02/04/2013 at 12:26
EKGO - Gove is a politician, not an educationalist. Just as the Education Secretaries before him. He has advisors who disseminate educational research to help inform his policy decisions. These advisors come from a broad range of education backgrounds. However, he has chosen to ignore this vast wealth of knowledge and advice in favour of politically fuelled ideology and rhetoric. This is my problem with Gove - he's talking out of his arse.
02/04/2013 at 12:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJYbFFFZwdE

If you don't like your job, leave and go to work for someone else who will give you the pay and conditions that you want.

Can't find anywhere better? Well, stop complaining then!

02/04/2013 at 12:43
*Frodo* wrote (see)
EKGO - Gove is a politician, not an educationalist. Just as the Education Secretaries before him. He has advisors who disseminate educational research to help inform his policy decisions. These advisors come from a broad range of education backgrounds. However, he has chosen to ignore this vast wealth of knowledge and advice in favour of politically fuelled ideology and rhetoric. This is my problem with Gove - he's talking out of his arse.

Thank you, now we know that this is a fight against the person who is deciding the direction of the profession, I see it as a political issue and not based upon the terms and conditions of a workforce. You have lost my sympathy. In times like these when Education is failing and money is tight, there has to be action of some kind.

Rickster may have put the message above yobbishly but the sentiment is there. Try another job if you think it will provide what your present job does, I wish you well in your search but you will fail.

02/04/2013 at 12:44

I believe Rickster is studying law. I hope he isn't planning to go into employment law when he qualifies.

02/04/2013 at 12:48
EKGO - surely your statement is s contradiction in terms? The changes he is trying to force through do completely change the terms and conditions of the job?!
02/04/2013 at 12:56

how?

 

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