The hidden victims of serious crime.

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Cheerful Dave    pirate
09/05/2013 at 11:16

 

EKGO wrote (see)

It would be horrible of course but if you had the opportunity to provide your family member with an alibi, would you do it?


Well, then you'd no longer be the 'hidden victim of serious crime' that kk referred to originally, you'd be an accomplice, or at the very least complicit in the crime (assuming, of course, that you're talking about providing a false alibi).

Mind you, in this tabloid world when these cases emerge it's generally assumed that family members knew all along what was going on, so get tarred with the same brush anyway.  In for a penny I suppose...

09/05/2013 at 11:28
Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

 
Well, then you'd no longer be the 'hidden victim of serious crime' that kk referred to originally, you'd be an accomplice, or at the very least complicit in the crime (assuming, of course, that you're talking about providing a false alibi).


I think you are involved whether you are victim or accomplice and if you are involved in anyway but not totally responsible you are a hidden victim of the original crime I guess

09/05/2013 at 11:43

Already this thread demonstrates how plain nasty your neighbour, colleague or running companion might be.

"Family first" "alibi" no concern for the victim(s) that your precious loved one has visited with his/her violence, death or perversion. Protecting the perpetrator is in my view worse than the crime and should have the same penalties. There are no "exceptional circumstances" that is what the judge and jury are for. Yes, there are miscarriages of justice but most do NOT declare innocence only procedural / technical  problems.

No doubt those so minded are equally uninterested in violence towards police officers because it is "us or them".

Of course all bets are off when there is any suggestion of "Islamic" terrorism possibly unless you are of that persuasion and take a view of 'look after your own'.

To keep it topical no doubt the kidnapped girls in Ohio 'were asking for it' and the Boston bombers have genuine grievances against U.S.A. Well if they were YOUR FAMILY what would you say?

LIVERBIRD    pirate
09/05/2013 at 11:47

It's not family first. I doubt very much murderers think twice about killing and raping people because of the effect it might have on their extended families.

Shafilea Ahmed was murdered by her parents less than a mile from my home because she didn't want to enter into an arranged marriage. It took a LONG time to convict them because nobody could definitively PROVE they had done it.

Eventually the evidence of her sister who witnessed the murder put BOTH of her parents behind bars for life. I feel desperately sorry for that girl. But did she do the right thing? Absolutely.

09/05/2013 at 11:50

She only did the right thing after she was caught carrying out an armed robbery on her own parents home, the police gave her the ultimatum to give them the story or face jail herself

09/05/2013 at 11:52
Martenkay wrote (see)

Already this thread demonstrates how plain nasty your neighbour, colleague or running companion might be.

 

No doubt those so minded are equally uninterested in violence towards police officers because it is "us or them".

Of course all bets are off when there is any suggestion of "Islamic" terrorism possibly unless you are of that persuasion and take a view of 'look after your own'.

To keep it topical no doubt the kidnapped girls in Ohio 'were asking for it' and the Boston bombers have genuine grievances against U.S.A. Well if they were YOUR FAMILY what would you say?


Do you think you could squeeze any more wild assumptions into this post?

09/05/2013 at 11:55

Agree, that is possibly the most ludicrous, badly constructed post I have ever seen

LIVERBIRD    pirate
09/05/2013 at 12:15

Only 'sort of' Nick. The robbery was apparently staged.

 

09/05/2013 at 13:52
LIVERBIRD wrote (see)

Only 'sort of' Nick. The robbery was apparently staged.

 

Well she would say that wouldn't she

09/05/2013 at 13:55
Sussex Runner (NLR) wrote (see)
Has anyone checked EKGO's basement in the last 10 years? Seriously there are no rules here. Family first, yes but unless there are very exceptional circumstances like your'e related to the Fritzels.

I would have got away with it, if it wasn't for that Pesky Sussex Runner  

09/05/2013 at 14:28
PhilPub wrote (see)
Martenkay wrote (see)

Already this thread demonstrates how plain nasty your neighbour, colleague or running companion might be.

 

No doubt those so minded are equally uninterested in violence towards police officers because it is "us or them".

Of course all bets are off when there is any suggestion of "Islamic" terrorism possibly unless you are of that persuasion and take a view of 'look after your own'.

To keep it topical no doubt the kidnapped girls in Ohio 'were asking for it' and the Boston bombers have genuine grievances against U.S.A. Well if they were YOUR FAMILY what would you say?


Do you think you could squeeze any more wild assumptions into this post?

 


Firstly, you have tampered with your evidence and removed a paragraph that puts the 'quote' somewhat out of context, m'lud.

Secondly, "wild assumptions" hardly grievous when put next to those making the case for family first and providing alibis for serious crime!

Erm, did you have a contribution to make to the debate or does altering my post say it all for you?  

09/05/2013 at 14:40
Martenkay wrote (see)
 


Firstly, you have tampered with your evidence and removed a paragraph that puts the 'quote' somewhat out of context, m'lud.

Secondly, "wild assumptions" hardly grievous when put next to those making the case for family first and providing alibis for serious crime!

Erm, did you have a contribution to make to the debate or does altering my post say it all for you?  

 

 

I'd hardly call three complete and unaltered paragraphs taking something out of context (especially when the rest of your post is directly above it for all to see.)  I meant to take out the first paragraph to make it clearer which part of your post I was referring to.

For the record, if EKGO really is serious I think he needs to sort his values out. I might turn a blind eye to my brother evading a bus fare (not that he'd do such a thing cos he's been brought up proper like me!) but I'd like to think it would be a different matter for seriously heinous crimes.  What I don't get is the logical leap you make to references about violence against the police, and blatant prejudice against muslims.

09/05/2013 at 15:01
Good example might be.....if those two Castro brothers knew what Ariel was up to should they have reported it. And if they hadn't what should be their punishment? Surely, he's me brother, would be no excuse.
09/05/2013 at 15:25
LIVERBIRD wrote (see)

It's not family first. I doubt very much murderers think twice about killing and raping people because of the effect it might have on their extended families.

Shafilea Ahmed was murdered by her parents less than a mile from my home because she didn't want to enter into an arranged marriage. It took a LONG time to convict them because nobody could definitively PROVE they had done it.

Eventually the evidence of her sister who witnessed the murder put BOTH of her parents behind bars for life. I feel desperately sorry for that girl. But did she do the right thing? Absolutely.

I think the difference in that case is the cultural one - she presumably did not want to testify against her parents either out of fear or a belief that what they did was correct. 

09/05/2013 at 15:27

That is a good example SR and if it can be proved they must have known about what was happening to the women I expect they'll be charged as accessories.

I still wonder about Mrs.Fritzl, but if  the "upstairs" children knew nothing about their "downstairs" siblings, and they didn't, it lends weight to her claim that she nothing about it either. I suppose you should never underestimate people's capacity for stupidity and/or delusion.

Primrose Shipman still believes her darling Harold was innocent... 

09/05/2013 at 15:31

Some good points and taking those into consideration to clarify I would have to make a judgement decision for family who are not as close, but for my own Children, I'd still protect whatever the issue, I would try to deal with things myself and wouldn't condone it but couldn't see my kids put away.

09/05/2013 at 15:32
EKGO wrote (see)

Some good points and taking those into consideration to clarify I would have to make a judgement decision for family who are not as close, but for my own Children, I'd still protect whatever the issue, I would try to deal with things myself and wouldn't condone it but couldn't see my kids put away.

Not even for rape or murder? 

No-one is saying you have to disown them entirely but would you actually lie to keep them out of jail (and potentially allow them to go out and find more victims)?

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 15:35
09/05/2013 at 15:36

agree screamy (did i really say that???)
So you would actively help in disposing of bloodied clothes/hide a body if your own child asked you to?
Please don't join my club.

Edited: 09/05/2013 at 15:37
09/05/2013 at 18:39

Hard as that has to be I feel more sorry for Meredith Kercher's family who have to watch Amanda Knox make millions from her story.while still not knowing what really happened to their daughter/sister.

09/05/2013 at 18:55
EKGO wrote (see)

Family first, the law comes second. I couldn't see my family jailed 

True primative tribal mentality.

Family first.

Then the tribe.

Fuck everyone else.

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