The Right To Bear Arms In America Is Detrimental To Society.

Discuss.

21 to 32 of 32 messages
17/04/2013 at 16:31

What happens to if that intruder is your girlfriend who has gone into the toilet and locked her self in after you accidently hit around the head with a cricket bat - you helpfully shoot through the door to gain access and find that three bullets have accidently hit her and killed her. 

17/04/2013 at 16:35

Friendly fire?

17/04/2013 at 17:22

Right, some facts for you.

Beckford v R AC 130

"...a man about to be attacked does not have to wait for the assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot."

This shows that when you are under immediate threat of attack by an intruder in your home, that you can make a pre-emptive strike to defend yourself.

S.76(7)(a) Criminal Justice And Immigration Act 2008.

"...a person acting for a legitimate purpose may not  be able to weigh to an exact nicety the exact measure of any necessary action."

This means that when under immediate threat of attack you use a bit more force than necessary to fight off an attacker.

Obviously though, you can't hit an intruder if they are not attacking, or trying to attack you, or if they are running away.

Hope that clears up the legal side to it. 

17/04/2013 at 18:11

In America like any country, there are good people, and people who does to be locked up. As a nurse who has worked abroad, i have seen all races, all cultures. People are people, essentially good, but have fallen along the way.

17/04/2013 at 20:20

That being said Rickster; What did Mr Hussain do wrong? Did they think he was related to Saddam?

Seems to me he affected a citizens arrest?  (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, s.24A)

btw I know what he did wrong, but I still think that a person should only be prosecuted in the most exceptional circumstances. The principle of a persons right to self defence should nearly always take precedence.

To me the American 'Castle doctrine' makes sense; and it is based on English law (aka The 'Go ahead punk, make my day' rule).

"And the law of England has so particular and tender a regard to the immunity of a man's house, that it stiles it his castle, and will never suffer it to be violated with immunity: agreeing herein with the sentiments of ancient Rome, as expressed in the works of Tully;quid enim sanctius, quid omni religione munitius, quam domus unusquisque civium?"

Gives you a flavour.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Furthermore just after Tony Martin was sent to prison for shooting at a person climbing out of his window, another was not prosecuted for stabbing someone who was climbing out of his window....

The law is far from clear....

Edited: 17/04/2013 at 20:26
17/04/2013 at 21:09

I wouldn't say it was detrimental to American society per say. To reach an informed opinion you have to spend a fair bit of time in the country and know what makes the average American tick.

Whilst its easy to zero in on the gang culture and the gun toting Texans, America is actually a very diverse and good natured country. Look at the amount of people they let in each year to start a new life, look at their policy on overseas aid.

The majority of the USA is actually a friendly and non violent place, you'd be hard pushed to see any evidence of the "gun culture" in many places other than armed police which after a short time blend in and you don't notice.

Whilst the bare bones of the facts point to an epidemic of gun murders, in order to make a claim that guns are detrimental to society you need to analyse the numbers a little further.

There are about 8000 gun murders each year in the US, however around 95% of this number of gang related. Ask the average american if they are worried about the gang murders and most will say they are not. The other 5% can be broken down in to catagories such as domestic desputes, armed robberies ect ect. The actual number of gun murders the average american is worried about is pretty low. The majority of gun crime is located certain areas of the inner city, places the average American doesn't frequent.

Whilst a british person might think its a terrible state of affairs, Americans aren't brits. People grow up and take their environment for granted.

The reason opinions on guns don't seem to change is that whilst the horrendous events of school massacre's is terrible and many americans would like some sort of change in gun laws. These events are few and far between and the average citizen won't have ever been affected by such events. Thus after time people get on with their lives and care less as time passes.

This is just my peneth worth, having traveled to the Us extensively and have some good American friends.

18/04/2013 at 10:39

The other point though is that firing a gun is just so exciting! I've had a few clay-pigeon shooting lessons and really enjoy it. We had some friends staying so all four of us went for a lesson - our two OHs had both never shot before and were expecting to find it really boring but they both loved it and really want to go again! I suspect it is not just the rights issue - when the government wants to take something away from you that you really enjoy and have grown up with then you tend to resist.

18/04/2013 at 11:23
Peter Everitt wrote (see)

The other point though is that firing a gun is just so exciting! I've had a few clay-pigeon shooting lessons and really enjoy it. We had some friends staying so all four of us went for a lesson - our two OHs had both never shot before and were expecting to find it really boring but they both loved it and really want to go again! I suspect it is not just the rights issue - when the government wants to take something away from you that you really enjoy and have grown up with then you tend to resist.

I agree that there is the excitement issue, but guns in the UK are heavily regulated. I suspect that when you had lessons you were under the supervision of a qualified instructor and on a proper shooting ground.

The type of gun that you can use here is very restricted. Handguns, pump action shotguns and assault rifles are illegal. You can own a semi-automatic shotgun, but it can't take anymore than 3 cartridges.

Why anyone would feel the need to own an assault rifle is beyond me. Ok fair enough, a small bore rifle can be used for pest control, hunting and target shooting, and a shotgun is useful for clay pigeon shooting, pest control and hunting, but nobody needs an AK 47 under the bed to feel safe.

18/04/2013 at 13:34

The right to bear arms in America maybe goes back to a time when guns were the law, is it detrimental to society? probably yes but there are benefits. American society generally is massively more polite and courteous than English has become, is it down to the fact that anyone you insult may have more firepower than you? possibly, but that is maybe a good thing.

As for the AK47, it's dick measuring, we go for high powered cars that are meaningless for the purpose of driving, so they go for more powerul guns, male jewellery

18/04/2013 at 13:40

Devil's advocate of course

18/04/2013 at 13:53

Miscreants in the USA don't always carry guns, as we can see from this example of a violent thief who exercised particularly poor judgement.

18/04/2013 at 16:33

congress just thre out stronger control...the GOP are lunatics.


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