I'm old enough that when I went to Uni the first time I got a government grant and didn't have to pay anything... how things have changed...
I was chatting with a friend yesterday about the fees that students have to pay now for their degrees... however, this is still MUCH cheaper than those of us with children in private education already pay and have been paying for years... so.. when our kids get to Uni, we'll actually be saving a fortune...!
Just another way of looking at it...
Dark Vader wrote (see)
I'm old enough that when I went to Uni the first time I got a government grant and didn't have to pay anything... how things have changed... I was chatting with a friend yesterday about the fees that students have to pay now for their degrees... however, this is still MUCH cheaper than those of us with children in private education already pay and have been paying for years... so.. when our kids get to Uni, we'll actually be saving a fortune...! Just another way of looking at it...
*bites tongue so hard it bleeds*
I knew someone would say that...!
I'm just saying that some of us pay a lot more than that for school education already, and that thus paying up to £9k for Uni will actually be a saving.... the media seems to ignore this... approximately 20% of all school children are in private education... that's a lot of children and I would guess that almost all of those will go to Uni.. of the 80% of state school children I don't know what % go to Uni but I doubt it's anywhere near 100%.
Which is the whole reason that the tories introduced these crippling fees - their cronies (I don't know you, DV, so you have the benefit of the doubt) are not affected. In fact, if they can afford to pay up front, their privileged kids will not even have the graduate tax hanging over them, throughout their life.
We are heading back towards the "golden years" so beloved by slime balls like Cameron. In the 1950s, my uncle went to university. My father (the younger brother) was not allowed to go into the sixth form as my Grandfather insisted that he left and started working to pay for my uncle's education.
The new regime is punitive for students and families. As it is costing the government much more than they had predicted (surprise!), the maintenance loan that students can take out has shrunk slightly. In most universities, it is not even enough to cover rent. Families have to support them, which is more costly than if they are at home.
Erm, I thought it was Labour who introduced tuition fees?
(Not that I'm defending them, I'm certainly not, but still ...)
I'd call Blair a few more choice words than that.
But I suppose when University was "free" it was a big subsidy for the middle classes. now everyone has to pay through the nose. Although if you're minted then 6 grand a year for 3 years isn't that big of a deal anyway.
Dark Vader- I think you are missing the point as to why people are so angry at £9000 fees... indeed people like you paying private fees will not be affected, but the state school families are being priced out of university and thus effectively stopping their opportunities for social mobility.
I work in the state school sector and have already seen the impacts of the removal of EMA and the introduction of uni fees on children from poor backgrounds. I find it sad to see so much wasted potential, and the reinforcement of principles that favour the rich exclusively.
Dark Vader, I think you should consider yourself very lucky to be in the privileged minority. It is wonderful that your children will not leave university with a minimum £27,000 debt. The majority of potential graduates will be wondering how long it will take for them to pay that off over the course of their working life as they do not have parents sufficiently well off to pay their tuition fees or living costs while away at university.
20 % of children in private education.............that figure can't be right surely..........in my county we have 16 comps and not a single private school...........there are a few in cardiff but not many.......i would say from this area less tahn a couple hundred at most from over 15000
It's a question of choice I think, or rather, lack of choice: You, Dark Vader, are in a position to choose to pay for your kids to go to school, still, if you choose not to pay your children would still go to school. I'm fine with this, this seems fair to me.
This choice now does not exist in higher education: it's either pay or don't go. Obviously, this gives an enormous<span> advantage to people with wealthy parents. I accept that the country cannot fund everyone who want's to go to university but I believe that university places should go to those who are most academically able, not most financially able.
I think it started to go wrong when the government decided a high percentage of school leavers should go on to university; this was never sustainable.
<span>Dark Vader, you say you went to University when it was all still free, I did too, as did my husband. We, like you, are now in a position to send our children to fee paying school (although we choose not to) and we will be able to fund their university education should they go down this route. We would not be in this financial position if we did not go to university and neither of us would have gone under the new fee arrangements. I'm sure there are many people, who think that the fees are not really an issue as they can afford to pay them, who would not be in that fortunate position had they not benefited from free higher education themselves.
I think was Labour who introduced the fees.. not the Tories... although of course the Tories didn't take them away...!
Seren, that stat is national.. there are some posh bits of Surrey where there are no state schools and all are private.. it all balances out..
It might make people think more about what to study in future....
I was chatting with someone the other day who has just completed a Master in Anglo Saxon, and for some strange reason can't find a job !!!
Yep Thought it was wonderful when the kids left school... Suddenly had money
7% makes more sense...........
Dave..I have told my youngest 2 sons that if they want to go to university it should be to do a course that you have to go to unioversity to do........eg teaching or medicine etc......
Its just not worth the gamble of getting £50,000 in debt unless you have to to do the job that you really want to do.....
so if you want to be an accountant etc then get a job and then study whilst working....
bit of luck they will get rid of all the arty farty degrees..........but i imagine they will still exist so that the thicko rich kids can still have 3/4 years at uni and come out with some mickey mouse degree......
and I agree with CB69....when they started trying to get everyone in uni it wqas a real mistake........keep the vocational courses in colleges .....plumber etc are just as important in life but stupid to try an dget every course a degree course
I think there is too much emphasis on going to Uni.. in my work, there is a massive shortage of skilled people in building conservation expertise.. people who are good with their hands and have a talent... you don't need to wear a suit and drive a BMW to have a six figure salary... I know plenty of lovely people who are scruffy, unshaven, drive a pick up and yet earn a ridiculous amount... these people have learned a trade and are good at it... there are just not enough skilled trades people... if my son doesn't want to go to Uni but wants to do a trade I'll be backing him 100%..
Here's another way of looking at it:
I work for a university, working with the students who have disabilities. I work a given number of hours a week which, coincidentally, is the same number of hours listed as "contact" hours that my son would have on the courses that interest him. Effectively, therefore, we could both be in university for the same number of hours a week, one of us being taught, the other teaching.
It would take me three years to earn enough to pay for one year of tuition fees.
thats ridicolous jeepers.......
My eldest will carry on in college and will not go to uni.........but the others probably would...i'm just hoping that they get enough grant and fee reduction so that they can get a chance to go..........
The problem is that the Uni's have become big business and have focussed purely on expanding the courses that they do to maximise their revenue. There's no consideration given for what type and how many graduates the country actually needs. A good example is that over here in Ireland, the big software houses (including Google and "cloud" computing companies) cannot find the people they want and are importing 1,000 new graduates to fill vacancies.
As a result, the country can't afford to pay for everybody to go to Uni to study to do crappy courses that there's no need for. Instead of bringing in charges across the board, the variety and intake size of courses should be auditted and culled so it matches the country's needs.
Students on the courses that the country needs should be subsidised and everybody else should pay for themselves.
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