violence in senior school

I think you have a right to know that an investigation had taken place and that action had been taken Miffi.............and as you hadn't heard then i think you were right to keep on asking...........

an investiagtion is important.............for all sets of parents.....because In some cases it can identify where all the children might have made mistakes and as a parent you will have the full facts so that you can discuss it in full with your child..............

even if its just to reassure you that your own child was not at fault.............because teenagers do not always tell their parents the full truth

I have had experience of being the parent on both sides of these matters

Just to be fair I should let you know that the head of year has also replied to me this afternoon. 

She was very apologetic and said that she had replied to me when she received my email but on investigation today discovered that her reply had gone to her draft items folder and not been sent.  she provided more info than the deputy head and basically says that there was an argument between two year 7 boys, the year 8 boy (the puncher) got involved and my son got hurt because he stepped in to try to defend his friend.  (which is what my son said.)

She says the boys removal to the referral unit is "...a serious sanction in line with the severity of his actions.."

so now we are all done.

yes but i bet you haven't had a daughter held buy a boy while a girl stubs out a lighted cigarette on her face then tell teaching them works and what did she get a causation

and a son who had his 2 front teeth knock out by another pupil or stones thrown at your windows then tell me talking to them helps

toby.events like that are terrible and bot acceptable in society...........but caning or hitting those kids wouldn't stop them...........

there needs to be better forms of discipline for children............and I imagine those children do not have an structured sanctions at home from when they are young............

the problem is when the parents do not support and work with the schools............t

then I agree that those children who are over the line totally need to be removed from mainstream schools and worked with in different ways..........

those cases are very different from the one that miffi described where there was an instant reaction to a situation............the one with the cigarette is a preplanned evil act............

Miffi....glad its been sorted for you and you know the details..........i think as parents information is what we need even if we agree with actions or not............glad that your son's story backed up...always reassuring for parents that their children are still being honest with us

toby - if those things have happened to your family then I can completely understand that you wouldn't feel that 'talking' to these kids helps.   Frankly I know my husband would want to be waiting down a dark alley with a baseball bat... being generally law abiding he probably wouldn't but it is easy to believe that the perpatrators of the sort of attacks you mention have all their rights protected and those on the receiving end are left feeling powerless.

Toby, what you describe is very different to the incident that Miffi explained between her son and the other lad.  The school acted appropriately, if tardily.  In the assaults you describe the school would be powerless beyond dismissal from  mainstream education - especially in the context of assaults on the home as it's out of school hours - the police would be the most appropriate body to act on such assaults.

We had the police around and until i insisted they were trying to talk us out of doing anything sorry seren but there absolutely nothing you can say that will change my mind or convince me we had to much sh**t from kids over the years to tell me any amount of talking to them will help but i do agree that for some part the parents should take some of the responsibility

But that’s the great thing about theses forms we all have our own veiws and debate them in a way that respect those views

Just an observation for you....

My parents live in a socially deprived area where there was a small community school, small being the operative word. The school's OFSTED had judged it outstanding and yet the numbers on the school roll were consistently poor, largely I suspect due to the estate it was on, although I can't prove that.

The council felt they had no choice but to close it as there were sufficient surplus places in other schools. The parents were up in arms but even THEY could see you can't run a school with 50 kids in it when it can cater for 200.

So it closed. And it is now to be reopened as "New Horizons"  - a referral unit for boy's with emotional and social difficulties. The local residents have been invited in to see the "improvements". The place is like a palace and the facilitles are utterly amazing.

Miss LB, (year 6 and 11 years old) came home after hearing about this place from her grandparents and said "so if you're badly behaved and mean to other children you get to go to the naughty boys school where you get the best of everything? That doesn't seem very fair."

Out of the mouths of babes eh?

I don't know what the answer is but I DO know that rewarding bad behaviour is never a good plan. Miss LB has a child in her class at the moment with "emotional difficulties" (their words). In Miss LB's words he "hurts EVERYBODY" and she has been on the recieving end of his tantrums which resulted in a trip to school for me. The school were very apologetic about it and assured me he has someone with him to "calm him down" at all times (clearly not because this happens daily) but what REALLY pissed me off (and this has been going on for 5 years because I've seen it get worse since they were 6) is that there is a sign in reception saying that the staff have a right to work in a non violent environment. And yet the CHILDREN are expected to tolerate a nine stone eleven year old who thinks its ok to attack anyone he chooses when he's in a bad mood.

But it's OK, he has a book he can write his "feelings in"....

The real truth of the matter is that he's in year 6 and they're having to tread water until July when they can pass him on to the high school and then he's SEP - someone elses problem. So in the meantime our kids tread on eggshells trying not to upset him because there is nowhere else for him to go.

LB..........

it can be hard to see behaviour being rewarded.but if you have sensible children then its easier to explain.

 a bit like seeing children with disabilities going to the front of queues in theme parks instead of waiting for an hour or more.........yes it might be great to get the perks of the diabilitiy for that day of the year but would your children want to live with the disability day in day out.........never having the freedom that your children have........

 with the children with behaviour problems...........would your children like to live everyday with overwelming feelings of anger and fear.......to constantly have stress  and to have to spend a day in a classroom with a bunch of other children who are also filled with excess of emotions that they cannot deal with.to be surrounded by kicking off every few minutes............

you have to remember that just because the facilities seem better than theres that they cannot be happier or feel more secure

I'm sure with the child in your daughter classroom seeing someone with a one to one at all times who is struggling even if they get rewards.she must be greatful that she is not them....just as you must be greatful that he is not your son........

I really value your opinion on this Seren because I KNOW you've had experience of it.

Its good to hear it from the other side of the coin.

You're quite right about the child being stressed. He IS stressed. I used to be in that classroom one day a week and I saw the start of this anxiety and mentioned it to the teacher at the time who agreed but seemed to hope it would go away. He's a bright child. Academically he's got it, but even when we were doing something as simple as a weekly spelling test he would explode into a rage and it would be a long time before he would calm down. And then he'd get 10 out of 10.

I too suffer from anxiety disorder so I can only begin to imagine what it must be like to be a kid in that environment. He seems to hate himself.  But for the other 29 children in that classroom it is turning into a nightmare and the needs of the many to be taught in a happy and peaceful place are being overlooked by the needs of the one because they can't find him anywhere else to GO. That is the fault of the system yet again. This is a DAILY occurence and it's blighting the lives of the children who are there.

And now they all see him as "a nutter, stupid and an idiot" - all words which start him off. I know this isn't an isolated incident. Kids like this one are in classrooms up and down the country. In a purely selfish way though, as a parent of one of the OTHER kids, I am concerned with HER wellbeing and I believe she has a RIGHT to go to school without fear of being attacked by anyone and this simply isn't happening. I have expressed this to the teacher involved. I asked for no further action to be taken on the latest violent incident and I told them my concerns about the children's safety. I also told the teacher I back her in her decisions regarding these incidents because she's a GOOD teacher and she's fair and I think its important that they know they have our support. But I can't see anything changing in the near future and come next September this poor boy will be in high school and I really fear for him them...

I agree that you have to look after your own.

 I also think that mainstream is not the place for many of these children.............it became fashionable for mainstream to be there for everyone...but I think each has to be looked at individually..........some children can do well in mainstream with a one to one support and some comps handle this very well with seperate rooms for breaks and difficult times..........

some children need the different structure of a specialist  school where their individual needs can be addressed.......but this is a more expensive option......

suprisingly some children do better at sceondary school because the days are very regimented and stick to the timetables......if the school has seperate areas for when is needed away form the bustle of lessons......

Fashionable? Inclusion more like.....

I do think bad behaviour is rewarded and I feel very much for the 'ordinary child' who suffers because of these children.  Albeit subtly.

At some point someone in Government will connect EBD provision and how the reduction in disruption will knock on to improve results.  Then EBD provision will be back as the latest new idea and some of these kids will be placed in the environment they require.

I think a lot of these students go off the scale in secondary because the day is more fluid, there is more movement and different staff hourly.  I think primary is much more regimented.