Well thats going to help

16 messages
25/07/2012 at 13:09

So rather than one guy shooting in the dark you have lots of guys shooting in the dark

and the first shooter is the only one with night vision goggles!

 Ok this is what I would like to know and I think pretty much only an American born and raised can answer this question. Hope there are some out there.

When as an American you hear of a shooting how do you perceive it? 

What does a shooting "taste like to you?"  Thats an awkward metaphor but the best I can come up with.

More explaination. As an English person when I hear of a shooting it doesnt enter my head for one minute to get a gun. Not a second.Nada not at all.

It has been said that  because the US has yet to give up the idea of personal law inforcement, there will always be a disconnection with wanting to be safe but wanting to have the means to kill. That it keeps American society in a "raw" "frontier" state. That knowing so many of your fellow citizens have the ability to use deadly force rather than keep people orderly makes people fearful and irrational.

"If they have guns there must be something to fear, but where?"

Perception becomes the trut. We see it here. The government says crime is coming down. People perceive it as going up. If we had ready access to guns...see my point.

Feel free to put in current attitudes to big government and internet conspiracy fears about the illuminati.

25/07/2012 at 13:24

Ownership of guns in the US has always puzzled me too.  I can't see how owning a gun will make you any saffer, especially if you aren't carrying it.

Hubby used to go to Arizona a lot for business.  He said that the majority of Americans that worked on the site took up to FOUR guns to work with them, but they had to check them in at security every day as they weren't allowed to carry them on site.  The purposes of the guns were primarily for game - they would shot dinner on their way home from work if they happened to see any - but that most people also carried a hand gun for their own safety.

So in this particular case, when they are driving too and from work, through the dessert on very quiet roads where they are unlikely to see anyone, they carried guns to protect themselves. But when they were on site where they were in close contact with a large number of people and potentially at greater risk, then they didn't have their gun on them.

When asked why they didn't leave their guns at home Hubby was informed that it was their right to carry guns, therefore they would.

25/07/2012 at 13:43
Stephen E Forde wrote (see)

More explaination. As an English person when I hear of a shooting it doesnt enter my head for one minute to get a gun. Not a second.Nada not at all.

 


Generalising, I supsect it's simply down to not being able to buy them in Tescos rather than something about being English Just look what happens when there's a rumour that there might be a Petrol strike..

I think the underlying original reason for the right to bear arms is laudable, i.e. the concept of a nation being armed as individuals so that they can protect themselves from a tryranical government. Alas the whole thing's gone off message a bit.

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/552729_438668516155878_531180717_n.jpg

 

 

Edited: 25/07/2012 at 13:49
25/07/2012 at 13:53

There are many elements to all this that leaves me scratching my head but the one thing that really stands out is the concept of a gun somehow being a defensive weapon.  If your average, everyday civilian going about their average, everday life, when thinking about what they ought to be carrying in their handbag that day is thinking "kill, or be killed", then something is seriously wrong.

I expect there are a few degrees of cognitive dissonance involved in people's actual reasoning for owning and carrying a gun, but that's beside the point.  Armed, stupid (possibly insane) and very dangerous.

25/07/2012 at 13:55
Ian M wrote (see)
 

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/552729_438668516155878_531180717_n.jpg

 

 

I shouldn't laugh but I'm borrowing that. 

25/07/2012 at 14:47
PhilPub wrote (see)

I expect there are a few degrees of cognitive dissonance involved in people's actual reasoning for owning and carrying a gun, 

Ah cognitive dissonance. How would we get through our day without a little of that?

 

 

Edited: 25/07/2012 at 14:50
25/07/2012 at 14:57
Stephen E Forde wrote (see)
 

Ah cognitive dissonance. How would we get through our day without a little of that?

 

 

I don't know, hadn't really thought about it.

25/07/2012 at 17:18

I would suggest that there will be a range of reactions from Americans. Plenty of Americans are in favoutr of gun control. This may be influenced by where the come from. The attitude in Arizona or Texas is very different from NY or SF liberals.

Some random stats to make it look like I know what I'm talking about:

" only 25 percent of adults own a firearm. Of these, three out of four own more than one gun.
About 10 percent of the adult population owns 77 percent of the total stock of firearms. "

seems like the gun lobby is quite vociferous and influential in relation to the number of gun owners

 

26/07/2012 at 00:49
PhilPub wrote (see)
Stephen E Forde wrote (see)
 

Ah cognitive dissonance. How would we get through our day without a little of that?

 

 

I don't know, hadn't really thought about it.

Ba boom tish!

We're here all week folks!

Bring your family. Bring your friends. Imaginary or real, we dont mind!

 

26/07/2012 at 01:50

I think Ian's right - it's down to the fact you can't buy them in Tescos rather than some difference in the English and American psyche.  

I'm pretty sure if they were legal and readily available I'd have a gun by now - I have no desire or use for one but then I have no desire or use for a 2 stroke petrol strimmer but for reasons that escape me I have one in the shed - the same goes for lots of other crap.   Having said that I don't take the strimmer to work and check it into security.

26/07/2012 at 11:11

frankly, unless you plan to use a gun in the UK, it's a pain in the arse to look after one as thankfully we have a very good licencing system - it creaks a bit at times so we end up with maasacres like Dunblane or Hungerford, but it's a good way of keeping most people in check in the UK. 

when my father died, I inherited his 12 bore shotgun - he used to rough shoot with it (rabbits, pigeons etc).  but to keep it, I needed to get a police licence, get a security cabinet to keep it in, get inspected etc and as I was unlikley to ever use it myself, it became more trouble that it was worth - I guess my sentimentality to hold on to it faded with the years whereas initially it was my way of hanging on to my father's "being" as he loved to shoot.   my wife was never happy with me keeping it, so after a good few years of hanging on to it, I sold it.

if the Yanks could alter their view on gun control and bring a proper usage/licencing system to bear, then it would help but somehow I don't see them changing so it will be a question of when, not if, the next nutter goes wild with his gun stash.  

Edited: 26/07/2012 at 11:12
26/07/2012 at 12:07

there's something about the idea of living somewhere where a certain percentage of the local population will be carrying guns that sends shivers down my spine. 

26/07/2012 at 12:26

@Peter Collins - if you live in the UK you already live somewhere where  a certain percentage of people carry guns, and not all legally.

This surprised me, though.  More than four-fifths of US states are open-carry.

26/07/2012 at 12:34

Ok, I'm talking more about the locality in which I live. I'd be very surprised if there was as high a percentage of people carrying guns in my bit of London as in, say, Arizona or Texas. 

Cheerful Dave    pirate
26/07/2012 at 15:00
Peter Collins wrote (see)

there's something about the idea of living somewhere where a certain percentage of the local population will be carrying guns that sends shivers down my spine. 

And that's why, if you were living in the US, you may well feel you needed to own one as well - it's self perpetuating.

Any notion of gun control over there is largely a waste of time, owning a firearm is too engrained.  You'd stand less chance of getting effective control in place than you would getting the UK to switch to driving on the right.

26/07/2012 at 15:16
Cheerful Dave wrote (see)
Any notion of gun control over there is largely a waste of time, owning a firearm is too engrained.  You'd stand less chance of getting effective control in place than you would getting the UK to switch to driving on the right.

They're going to do that in Ireland.  They'll swap trucks and buses over next April, then cars and motorcycles in April 2014.  I'm here all week!


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