WW3?

18 messages
Cake    pirate
21/07/2014 at 18:12

There will be a peaceful outcome it's a f*ck up as far as Putin's is concirned instead of a deliberate downing. Think ww3 is very far off but a return to something similar to the cold war might be on the card's unless a step back is taken. The situation of a few fronts has been boardering on brinkmanship for a few years. One thing that's needs mentioning is Russia has a glass jaw in turn's of international relations in that there econamy is not exactly robust even now.

If they start getting serious on sanctions or start long term using other area's to inport gas while it's going to be bad for western euorpe it's going to distroy a lot of what Russia has gained in the last 20 years.

Personally I think it's time to start doing that not just because of the Ukcaine but because if Russia contuies to support Syria in the way it's doing that situation will contunie to get worse and widen the war there in way's can can't be contained which is far more likely to turn into ww3. If Iraq because's a failed state regardless of the moral's of it will put both Iran and Saudi Arabia in a situation with no winner's.

21/07/2014 at 18:42

Even during the Cuban missile crisis there was dialogue going on behind the scenes. You can bet your life that something similar is happening at the moment.

Besides, the Americans don't tend to attack people with the capability to fight back.

 One thing I would say, though, is be thankful it's Obama in the White House and not Bush.

Edited: 21/07/2014 at 18:44
21/07/2014 at 19:17

i wouldn't be so sure. statistically speaking, democrats are more war-mongering that republicans. i think it's something to do with having a point to prove they aren't wishy-washy.

21/07/2014 at 19:28

If there is a strong western response then no ww3 and most likely a quick ceasefire in Ukraine And no further Russian aggression. However if the Euro wimps continue their hand wringing then the dying will continue.

PSC    pirate
21/07/2014 at 19:31
I am more worried about Israel & Palestine. Who do you believe? Why can't it all just stop? Needless death and destruction and it's being going on non stop for generations. Surely there's got to be a solution....
21/07/2014 at 19:35
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMpKvsQgc0UbOVx34rm4QC4MyChNouxBleMcHn7vpYin5MQ19Zrg

  Don't say you weren't warned.
Edited: 21/07/2014 at 19:36
21/07/2014 at 19:52
the dude abides wrote (see)

i wouldn't be so sure. statistically speaking, democrats are more war-mongering that republicans. i think it's something to do with having a point to prove they aren't wishy-washy.

This century the Republicans lead by 3 wars (one still ongoing) to one intervention in Libya (over).

Cake    pirate
22/07/2014 at 12:43
PSC wrote (see)
I am more worried about Israel & Palestine. Who do you believe? Why can't it all just stop? Needless death and destruction and it's being going on non stop for generations. Surely there's got to be a solution....

Hamas has lost most of the backers who used to give them cash after the Arab spring and Syria going into civil war and the Israelis have been under a lot of pressure from the US to sort out a lasting peace so both sides are finding it hard to manuver at the moment. Both sides in that mess need to ramp it up for their own power base because they are getting isolated internationally and will continue to. Don’t think this was why the poor boys where originally murdered which started this round of blood shed but it’s a factor in why never side want to back down. Hamas will very soon run out of cash and then they can’t pay for all the things they are providing in terms of social care both they and Israel know it. They also have very limited resource in terms of resupply once they have used the rocket’s they have as Egypt is being a lot more proactive in closing down the smuggler route’s into Palestine. Which is also a reason why Hamas isn’t getting much money at the moment.

The sad thing is that the situation might actually lead to peace elsewhere as it draws attention away from putting resources against the none ISIS rebel’s in Syria. L

22/07/2014 at 12:50

Putin srikes me as a man who really doesn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of him and will carry on doing what he likes.

22/07/2014 at 13:26

yeah he's right up there with Berlusconi and Prince Philip

22/07/2014 at 13:49

Russia has previously been invaded by France and Germany, and it would seem pretty obvious that it is going to react when the Ukraine starts making noises about joining the EU. At times I wonder if the EU was being naive or deliberately provocative.

22/07/2014 at 14:50

But Russia also needs someone to sell its gas to. If Putin upsets his fellow shady oligarchs he's likely to get a bullet in his brain. Whatever his posturing internationally, at home he probably treads a finer line than most people think - lets face it, there are quite a few over there just like him.

22/07/2014 at 15:02
22/07/2014 at 17:05
 

Russia has previously been invaded by France and Germany, and it would seem pretty obvious that it is going to react when the Ukraine starts making noises about joining the EU. At times I wonder if the EU was being naive or deliberately provocative.

 

Interesting point. Cameron, that well-known Europhile, went to Kazakhstan last year and expressed his wish to see an EU spreading from the Atlantic to the Urals. The EU then courted Ukraine only for the then elected Ukrainian  PM to veto the deal. This is when it all kicked off and we had the unedifying view of Ashton and Van Rompuy in the Ukraine lending their support to the demonstrators who eventually overthrew the elected leader. OK he was a corrupt bugger but they only had to wait a few months for the next election to come round, the problem here of course being that the East would have probably voted for him to stay in power.

Is it any wonder that Putin reacted by moving in to the Crimea and allowing the people a vote to leave the Ukraine. Consequently we see no fighting in the Crimea and doubtless this situation would be replicated in E Ukraine if the people there were given a vote too. Having goaded Putin into action these sanctimonious words and this bellicose finger pointing from Cameron are laughable.

Putin was right over Syria too. Remember that Cameron was all for going in with all guns blazing and lending support to the so-called rebels against Assad. Fortunately wiser heads in Parliament voted this one down. These very Al Qaeda and ISIS factions are now running amok throughout the Middle East.

 

 

Edited: 22/07/2014 at 17:06
Cake    pirate
22/07/2014 at 17:28

Rich ISIS is one of many factions on Syria it's not a us or them type situation. To a point they have taken advantage of the situation to set up shop is a similar way that other nut cases have in afganistsan and somalia. The daft thing is that at the moment both the syrian rebels and the Syrian army are fighting them.

Far as I know over than being friendly the EU and Nato hasn't in any way actively courted the Ukraine and if anything told them before the revolution thanks but no thanks.

22/07/2014 at 18:06

They've worked out what shot the airliner down.

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10314747_666009086825144_9073836095390894735_n.jpg

 

23/07/2014 at 13:05
the dude abides wrote (see)

i wouldn't be so sure. statistically speaking, democrats are more war-mongering that republicans. i think it's something to do with having a point to prove they aren't wishy-washy.

I think historically that's because the Republican party was non-interventionist for much of the last century (for both good and bad reasons - that's me speaking). That changed through the 50s and 60s – though strangely both the Korean War (technically a police action by the UN) and Vietnam were bequeathed to Republican presidents by Democrat presidents – and particularly in the last 30 years.

23/07/2014 at 13:07
Rich949 wrote (see)
 

Russia has previously been invaded by France and Germany, and it would seem pretty obvious that it is going to react when the Ukraine starts making noises about joining the EU. At times I wonder if the EU was being naive or deliberately provocative.

 

Interesting point. Cameron, that well-known Europhile, went to Kazakhstan last year and expressed his wish to see an EU spreading from the Atlantic to the Urals. The EU then courted Ukraine only for the then elected Ukrainian  PM to veto the deal. This is when it all kicked off and we had the unedifying view of Ashton and Van Rompuy in the Ukraine lending their support to the demonstrators who eventually overthrew the elected leader. OK he was a corrupt bugger but they only had to wait a few months for the next election to come round, the problem here of course being that the East would have probably voted for him to stay in power.

Is it any wonder that Putin reacted by moving in to the Crimea and allowing the people a vote to leave the Ukraine. Consequently we see no fighting in the Crimea and doubtless this situation would be replicated in E Ukraine if the people there were given a vote too. Having goaded Putin into action these sanctimonious words and this bellicose finger pointing from Cameron are laughable.

Putin was right over Syria too. Remember that Cameron was all for going in with all guns blazing and lending support to the so-called rebels against Assad. Fortunately wiser heads in Parliament voted this one down. These very Al Qaeda and ISIS factions are now running amok throughout the Middle East.

 

 

I think the truth is that few on any of the sides you mentioned are particularly nice people with decent motives. It's hard to see Putin as a victim in all of this. As ever, it's ordinary people who suffer.


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