Paris Marathon 2012

le marathon en Paris...

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03/08/2012 at 13:41

Good morning all, and a good one it was here. Ran my fastest single mile - 6.29 - so was really happy with that - max heart rate was 189, which is quite a bit higher than my theoretical max - not sure if that's good or bad?

Olympics has been fantastic - and what a great show the organisers have put on too. 

03/08/2012 at 14:32

Nice one Dannirr. That's pretty darn quick. What made you do that? A race or just for fun?!

As for the HR, all you've learnt is that the theoretical HR maximums are just averages and you obviously are not average - well - no news there I guess. If you really threw everything at this mile, then the chances are that your actual max HR is not very far above 189. DV has a weird heart. Obviously got some Fly DNA - his max is over 210 if I remember rightly. My max is 182, although using the typical formula for average max HR for my age, it should be 176.

You and rubber hey ATM. You've mentioned it more than once. I think you are dismissing it too much, a sort of over-compensation so that we don't become suspicious of what really goes on in your basement. Who doesn't admire a feisty rubber-clad woman?

Eggy - you inspired me this lunchtime. I went out for a run and decided I should see if my legs would carry me through a tempo effort in the forest. So I targetted 10K in under 45 mins. I managed 44:04 for the 10 and did a few more to cool down. Legs feel suitably tired now and despite my HR being in the 90-95% range for the tempo section, I really enjoyed the hard effort.

Audrey - like Eggy says - always choose the fastest ride available. OK, he might not have actually said it that way, but you know it makes sense.

03/08/2012 at 15:07

TD - as part of this marathon plan, I'm doing a mile time trial every 4 weeks or so - see if I'm getting any faster. So, warmed up for a mile, then all out for a mile, then cool down for a mile.

At one time I had decided to go for a VO2 max test - but after reading Tim Noake's new book I've decided to scrap that plan - the data does not support the notion of a VO2 max.

I think I'm driving my family to the brink with my green smoothie thing.

03/08/2012 at 15:59

Dannirr - That's an impressive time for a mile. Looks like what ever training you are doing is working.

TD - Damn, I wish I could inspire myself to a 44 minute 10km! It's great that you are able to get back out and enjoy your running again after your operation.

03/08/2012 at 16:02

Dannirr - the value of a VO2Max test is not in objectively establishing the definitive value of your maximal oxygen consumption at speed - the basis on which this value is rejected, according to the 'brain as central governor' theory espoused by Noakes.

Firstly, the real benefit of a VO2Max test is that they get to measure at regular intervals your blood Lactic Acid concentration. Plotting your lactate profile on a graph helps determine where your lactic acid threshold is and this is a very important physiological factor, used to ensure the greatest possible effectiveness in a training plan. From this speed/ HR correlation, you can design your training. The VO2Max score is just FYI, although it is very interesting info.

Secondly, given that the variability of your capacity to suffer maximal pain probably falls within a very narrow range - i.e. you probably produce similar efforts each time you do a VO2Max test - which means that the results have a degree of internal consistency that allow you to compare with yourself over time, or benchmark against others who have been tested using the same protocol.

My first test gave me a result of 60.5 at age 42. My second test at age 43 - with a lot more high end training - gave a result of 65.5. I think this is a fair reflection on the increase of my cardio-vascular capacity at the time. It also made me realise that in my training, I didn't have to train very hard to increase my VO2Max in order to improve my marathon PBs. It was already extremely high. What I did need to do was concentrate on tempo runs so I could further increase the running speed at which i would hit my Lactate Threshold - because this would mean I could run faster and more energy efficiently over distance.

Sorry to be so technical everyone but I think I know my audience here!  Rob, feel free to add anything!

03/08/2012 at 16:21
TD - to continue along the technical stuff: Noakes debunks the idea of a VO2 max completely. He believes, and has shown, that incorrect analysis of the data lead to this theory and that in fact increasing effort is met with an increase in oxygen delivery in a proportionate and unlimited response. His central governor theory explains that the reason we reach a "max" is not because we are incapable of going further/harder, but rather that that our brain prevents us from doing so before we reach a point that would cause cardiovascular collapse. The obvious suggestion following that idea is that in addition to our physical training, we should be training our brains - our central governors - to allow us to go further or harder as our physical ability improves.

Certainly decreasing our lactate production at a given effort is of benefit - but perhaps not to the extent previously thought. Noakes explains that there is no evidence that lactate accumulation inhibits or decreases muscular performance, nor that it's level is properly related to oxygen deprevation. His example are Everest climbers - who routinely are more hypoxic for longer than endurance athletes, and who perform extreme physical efforts, yet have lower lactate levels than a VO2 max or lactate threshold theory would allow for.

As for me.....I just go out and run!
03/08/2012 at 16:47

Sorry to cut into the technical boffin stuff but could one of you explain how I can be the mother of a boy who is 12 today?  HOW did that happen??? 

03/08/2012 at 16:50

The same way that I am the mother of a thirteen yr old girl!!! By heck it makes me feel old!!!

Happy Birthday to yer_maj junior.

03/08/2012 at 17:04

Something to do with sex I think...

Not you Dannirr!!

I think I get what Noakes is on about. But it is absurd to suggest that the brain can deliver unlimited amounts of oxygen to the mitochondria and that are no theoretical limits. It's physically impossible and therefore logically wrong. Something that I don't get from the 'Brain as Central Governor' theory is this tacit understanding that whatever our brain may dictate, it is still mediated across two other factors: 1st is our conscious ability to deliver what the brain is signalling - to ignore through fear or override through intense training and desire - to push the body away from homeostasis - which has been done. This becomes the point which Noakes and has followers are advocating we should concentrate our (brain) training on.

But the 2nd factor is our physical limitations. A lifelong paraplegic may have a more powerful motivation and brain impulse to run or climb faster than me, but the results of atrophication etc will mean that they simply could not deliver a superior performance even if their limbs began to function right there and then. There's a reason that a skinny little white guy is not going to win the Olympic 100m final next week that has nothing to do with brains!

We train the brain through the interface of physical training (which is pretty much inline with what Brain Training tells us). So I think Noakes et al are throwing the baby out with the bath water. No we shouldn't absolutely pursue higher VO2Max scores as a primary training objective - different test protocols can deliver totally different results by invoking other brain stimuli. However, I believe that they are of secondary interest as they show us the resources the brain has got at its disposal.

Hope I am making sense. I have no doubt in my mind that I would make greater improvements in my race performances by running a proper training schedule at HRs and paces determined by a lactate profile, than I would do if I followed 12 different brain training visualisations on a repeated basis as advocated by Matt Fitzgerald. And I fully reserve the right to change my mind completely in 2 years time when i have been shown to be utterly wrong.

03/08/2012 at 17:04

Master Maj has had a great day so far- he was up at 6....he spent the day with my aunty being spoiled as I had to go to Birmingham and now he's testing out his new gaming headphones...I have been dismissed until it's cake time 

03/08/2012 at 20:22
Fascinating fact of the day - apparently dogs taking part in the Iditarod can have a VO2 max of 240.

So pleased to see Kath Grainger get her gold today. She really deserved it. That was the gold I wanted to see.

We waved off the captain of the women's sitting volleyball team from our office today - she's now in the final preparations for the Paralympics. One of her team mates is in a wheelchair because she lost her legs in the 7/7 bombings - she was running late because she'd been at a party the night before to celebrate London winning the Olympics and had missed her usual train. I know nothing about any kind of volleyball, but I'll be watching them.
03/08/2012 at 20:37

Well done Andy Murray, brilliant result. Surely he can get the better of Federer this time.

RR - great game volleyball.

03/08/2012 at 20:59

Did 12km easy tonight and it felt pretty good.

Had another run in with an idiot in a car tonight. Some bloke in his late 20's leaned out of the car and yelled at Mrs O on her bike. Gave him the ups, to make myself feel better and he called me a nasty name.

Passed the car parked outside a convenience store, passenger seat was empty but driver was still in, Very surprised to see it was a woman - especially as they came up behind us again beeping, shouting and laughing. And then they got stopped at the lights. I'm not brave enough to have given him a belt but I stopped and asked him what he got out of it. They were both still laughing. So I asked him why he would yell at a woman? Double-take. Go on why? 'You're mistaken mate, it wasn't me!'. I just waved him off and carried on running.

Lights change, they speed off - with his ar5e out the window "Get a load of this!!"

I don't get it

Edited: 03/08/2012 at 21:00
03/08/2012 at 21:03

You don't get it?

Nope, that's because you're the decent human being that you are, who wouldn't dream of behaving like that.  That's why you don't get it....

03/08/2012 at 21:28
Tricky Dicky¹ wrote (see)

Hi Kaz. Cleats are a mechanical lock to attach your cycling shoes directly on to the pedals, so you can pull up (use hamstrings) as well as push down (using Quads). They are the more effective version of the old toe-clips or straps. But if you slow down and forget to unlock your foot, you just fall over. For more details, ask Eggy or Radar Sal....

It's called a technical dismount. I have mine down to a tea.

Running Rodent wrote (see)
So pleased to see Kath Grainger get her gold today. She really deserved it. That was the gold I wanted to see.

I SAW IT!!!  Was an awesome row!

I'm back from a few days of Olypmic daze.  Badminton on Tuesday with the controversy of the olympics.  Thought it was awful the whole crowd booing them and then realised what was going on!!!  it was abysmal!  When the 2nd "throw" game started it was unbelievable!  Wednesday was an early start to get my run in before heading to the time trials.  GOOOOOOOO WIGGGGOOOO!!!!  landed a plum spot on a corner with a big screen in Esher (5ish km for women, 10-15kmish for men).  They all went less than a metre past me!!!!!  BRILLIANT! The Esher common went mad when wiggo won.  He IS a brilliant person!  That night was women's volleyball with one of the best shot of the olympics, when she kicked it with her foot.  Left early though as thursday morning was an early start to get out to the rowing.  GO ON NZ!!!  First gold in men's double!  FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!!!!   Thursday night was womens hockey with GB vs belguim (3-0) GO TEAM GB! and then NZ vs argentina (1-2) Voice was almost gone.  THEN this morning out to the rowing again to see NZ get TWO more golds!!!!!!! (I need more exclamation marks) and GB women's double win!  My voice is absolutely gone and am exhausted but WOW!  These olympics are just unbelievable (need more massive adjectives)!!! 

Now to rest my voice for a couple of days, do my LSR (24km) tomorrow and a 50 mile hilly sportive on sunday MADNESS! but I'm embracing it after this week seeing all the amazing, brilliant, fantastic, totally awesome athletes.

Right...must go and sleep.  If I can.

03/08/2012 at 21:29


03/08/2012 at 21:31
Wow! Very envious RS.
03/08/2012 at 21:35

I'm AMAZED I have seen that much!  It's been totally AWESOME!  I can't actually talk, only type.  my voice is goooone.

03/08/2012 at 21:38

RS - Very jealous. I think my couch is moulding to the shape of my behind going on how much Olympics coverage I'm watching just now! Must be amazing to get to the events.

Orbutt - You're a better man than me. Don't think I'd be so composed when confronted with such idiots.

03/08/2012 at 21:43


Edited: 03/08/2012 at 21:45
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