wearing headphones/earphones

AlanRothwell wrote (see)

Just thought I'd chip in as an event orgainser (RunLiverpool Marathon) as we have had a number of phone calls this morning contesting the ruling.

If the event is governed by UKA License (ours is) then the rules are quite clear. You are not allowed to wear listening devices. This is on the basis of safety. The ruling isn't for debate. However, if anyone should choose to wear headphones then it is virtually impossible to implement disqualification in an event of several thousand participants.

If the instruction and ruling is clear and subsequently ignored then don't complain if your are subsequently disqualified. The rule is there for the safety of all concerned.

I find it difficult to understand why there is so much debate about this when the rules are quite clear. As Skotty said, people pick and choose which rules to abide by or ignore. 

It amuses me that an organiser of an event is citing a UKA rule that doesn't exist.

So, recap.

No UKA rule on the subject for road races

If one is put in place by race organizers then "its virtually impossible to implement" (see above)

Seems to me the races that recommend or request, rather than rule, no headphones are being the most sensible and realistic. As whats the have point of making a ruling you have no intention of enforcing?

Whether it`s a rule or not, shouldn`t people just respect the wishes of the race director?

In an ideal world, I guess they would. The fact is thats not happening.

I think the "virtually impossible" comment was about actually preventing runners wearing headphones taking part, not about imposing some penalty on those who do.

The Race Director is personally legally responsible for event safety, and could face criminal prosecution if deemed to be negligent. That's probably pretty unlikely and I've never heard that it's happened, but that's not say it never will.

Assuming that all RDs are forewarned about the potential safety issue by UKA I can't imagine why most events do not have a ban.

Intermanaut - agree it's a strange thing to say, it says it's not for debate then goes on to say but we can't enforce it anyway

Millsy1977 wrote (see)

Whether it`s a rule or not, shouldn`t people just respect the wishes of the race director?

Yes, and I think that most entrants do.  Regardless of the rule there's always a minority that'll ignore it - that applies to everything in life.

I asked Alan Rothwell where he had found the rule he refers to - he said he didn't know where it was written, but that he'd been told it by a number of sources.

So, looks likely there is no UKA rule on this - but it is up to races to make the rules they choose, and people should respect them.  What's so hard about that?

It is hard to enforce though - your only sanction is disqualification, and ensuring enough marshals to not only ensure the safety of runners but also be be noting down the numbers of the ear-phone wearers might be difficult.

This is precisely how we end up with silly rules such as the HSE arguments we know too well, people quote hearsay to expand their own personal viewpoint to the detriment of common sense and rational thinking, and all of a sudden thre epeople say it so it must be true.

EKGO wrote (see)

This is precisely how we end up with silly rules such as the HSE arguments we know too well, people quote hearsay to expand their own personal viewpoint to the detriment of common sense and rational thinking, and all of a sudden thre epeople say it so it must be true.

Hearsay is quite a strong word. Besides, evidently a lot of people disagree that rules like "no headphones" are a "detriment of common sense and rational thinking" (as I infer you implied).

As an aside, I'm not sure why people wear headphones anyway. Obviously I understand the motivation/boredom argument. I think it's actually much nicer to run without headphones. The difficulty is, it's hard to suddenly change. But that's just like training your legs: it's tough to just go out and run for an hour (or two) just like that, it takes a little time to build up your legs to it. Similarly with coping with boredom. I used to struggle on 1 hour runs without music, now I quite enjoy 2 hour runs without it. It gives you time to actually think about things, sort out your thoughts, etc etc blah blah. It's easy to just say, "it's boring without music", but why not try, starting slowly? You wouldn't do a 10 mile run off the bat, conclude it's hard physically, and then not run again.

And with tongue somewhat in cheek, for things like marathons I agree with the previous poster that the mental challenge is to be endured/relished. You don't do a marathon 'cos it's easy, you do it 'cos it's bloody hard. So don't be a wimp and make it easier; man up and do the mental training as well.

DarenF wrote (see)

I think you'll find if you refer to the OP's original post that he was following a safe passage through the crowds by going for a clear line and wasn't expecting anyone to move out of his way. He just didn't expect some unaware idiot to almost trip him up by moving directly and unexpectedly into his path as he passed. The point he was making is that the incident wouldn't have happened if the runner he was passing had kept to the race rules. If you're going to wear headphones so you can't hear people approaching from behind, you should at least have the decency to check behind you before suddenly changing course.

Who says it's only runners who are wearing headphones that do this - have you never encountered this with non-headphone wearing runners?

And to Stevie G - actually I got the hip from an idiot truck driver who forced me off the road 91 miles into a 110 mile training (long) weekend... and no I was not wearing headphones at the time

Someone who can be arsed can put up the article in the UKA rules that talks about "ASSISTANCE" and pacing devices. Basically, anything that "aids" you is covered by it.

Even if there was/is NOTHING in law that prevents you from wearing them, if Alan says "you can't do it in my race" then you DON'T DO IT. Book something else. Otherwise you're a ignorant tosser.

bionic-hip? wrote (see)

DarenF wrote (see)

I think you'll find if you refer to the OP's original post that he was following a safe passage through the crowds by going for a clear line and wasn't expecting anyone to move out of his way. He just didn't expect some unaware idiot to almost trip him up by moving directly and unexpectedly into his path as he passed. The point he was making is that the incident wouldn't have happened if the runner he was passing had kept to the race rules. If you're going to wear headphones so you can't hear people approaching from behind, you should at least have the decency to check behind you before suddenly changing course.

Who says it's only runners who are wearing headphones that do this - have you never encountered this with non-headphone wearing runners?

Nowhere near as much, which is hardly surprising when you consider that the people with headphones are basically at least partially disabling the sense most of us use to tell when runners are approaching from behind.

And your disrespectful attitude towards race officials, who are basically volunteers who give up their time to put on an event for the pleasure of you and other runners, is a disgrace to be honest.

Liverbird you're right - anything that aids you is covered depending on how you interpret the rule but if that is the case then why are GPS devices, that clearly are more of an aid than listening to a bit of music, not banned?

Stop being sheep - stand up for your rights

The worrying thing about you Bionic Hip, is this in your status at the bottom.....meaning it's not just occasional selfishness you exhibit, it's a habit!

Also, you run marathons under the legal age.

I bet you throw water bottles in the middle of the road and line up at a place way too fast for your ability as well to not "lose out on a time"

 " I have,so far,completed 253 half marathons, 76 marathons and 33 ultra-marathons. I ran my first marathon at age 15 and first ultra at 17"

What puzzles me is why on earth you think any other runners would care whether you wore headphones or not if it wasn't a potential problem? What possible other reason could we have?

Stevie G - just shows how much you have missed the point - at least I'm still running these days and yes I did run several marathons "under age" - those days (1970's) there were no age limits, no I don't throw water bottle around I carry my own hydration and absolutely don't care about time - as long as I can just finish the race (surely the number I have completed should have given you that clue), but I guess you must be talking about yourself regarding tossing bottles and standing in the fast start pens. I have only recently taken to using music simply to keep my mind off the pain of now running with this lump of titanium in my hip but I guess with everything else you have said you have not even considered that point nor have you thought about the hard of hearing amongst us who may choose to not use their hearing aids during  run - they are effectively in the same position as someone using headphones i.e quite likely do not hear you coming up from behind etc. except that some of us keep the volumn well down as background sound  - and I'll give you that one - there are some who have their music way too loud and are a danger to themselves not just to others around them