Jools - leader - no less, very nice

Oldshoes - cool. I agree with you cos this thread had quckly gone from aspiarnt sub3 ers to sub 2:30 ers and you need lots of miles for one of those. My main aim here is to show that if a heavyweight lummox like me that doesnt take his running too seriously can run sub3 then so can lots of other folks.

WTG - great work, you're building a nice cake, and you might well have to tow me.

Runalot - thanks. I cant help, I dont do Garmins, or HRMs, or schedules, or racing shoes, or speedwork........

HH, Jools, TT, Oldshoes: thanks for picking up on my shin whinges. Strangely it was hurting all of yesterday, after 3M in the morning, but absolutely fine today after an all-out 1.1M race ("Cambridge Fun Run" -- rather windy, relay race, 5:09/M according to the Garmin -- OK considering lack of recent training). Can it be a coincidence that I had no booze until last night this week, and the shin was magically cured in the morning? I rest my case.

No I haven't tried massage really, but have been doing lots of strengthening exercises -- maybe too many in fact. And stretching it by kneeling with my feet out flat underneath me.

On the mileage debate, Piscator points out the elephant in the room: it all depends on your genetic ability. If you're unnaturally talented, 20M/week will see you through a fast marathon perhaps. If you're at the other end of the scale, 100M/week would never get you under 3 hours, even if you could cope with the training in the first place. Beyond that, there is clearly a tradeoff between quantity and quality, and I tend to come down on the quality side, with low weekly totals. (But hey, now I'm injured, or was yesterday.)

CharlieW wrote (see)

 Can it be a coincidence that I had no booze until last night this week, and the shin was magically cured in the morning? I rest my case.

Bingo. My last 2 15 milers on a friday have been pretty rubbish and achy. Both weeks I'd been dry since the weekend. Both runs I've thought best take a rest day, but then do a few slow ones on the weekend and I'm fine again. hmmm

Grolsch, speckled hen, red white or pink. decisions decisions

TR thanks for the confidence

runalot I just dont know I'll see if I can see a pattern (apart from charlie's suggestion above!) I'm not sure if (m)any have used the garmin schedules. Perhaps worth looking at a book called advanced marathoning by pfizter and douglas (p&d you may see it refered to as on here) that will tell you the basics and allow you to put a plan together around your life, or you could follow one of their schedules

TR.  we have some philosophy and stuff in common- i have had a garmin 305 (neat gadget!) for a couple of months and it hasnt yet been connected to the PC (...which hasnt had the software loaded).   

CharlieW  pleased to hear leg is holding up.  5:09/m? i assume running that fast hurts? did you win?

Oldshoes - direct trains via Blackheath go out to Bexleyheath, Dartford, Gravesend and then Strood, Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham.  Dartford might be a good bet, 23 mins direct on a Sunday morning.  All subject to engineering works, of course, not sure how far in advance you can get clarification on this?

Cheerful Dave and other aerobic monsters/natural talents are trumping me on the mara time/mileage ratio, but I did manage my 2:44 off max 67mpw (typically 60-65 in 2/3 month build-up). Plan this time round will be a good few consistent weeks of 70-75mpw, 20+M runs increasing by one to 8, and since I don't need to make them more difficult by finding hills to run up and down, I'll put a more concerted effort into making some of them genuinely progressive, with a few miles much closer to MP than I normally bother with.  Warm-up races will include a flat-out Bath HM, 7 weeks out, and (probably) Cranleigh 21, 4 weeks out. I like Cranleigh - a 9M lap followed by 2 x 6M laps, which I'd run exactly the same way I did before Paris last year - progressive 9M building from fast-training to near-MP, then 12M @ target MP.

2 consecutive rest days before today so I had a rare Friday run, but just a very easy 5M as I'm up for a proper hill sesh with clubmate tomorrow. His idea, never done it before - quote: "3x20min hard, with 3 hills in each 20min so 9 hills in all."  May the spirit of Beachy be with me.

Just finished reading 'Born to Run'. Quite inspiring for an American book about running. Loads of what is in there connects for me. Very thought-provoking.

no probs runalot, not sure whats in that book, I guess the important thing with a schedule is finding one to fit around your life

Found a large leffe brune followed by a small glass of red

Enjoyed perving on the newsreaders

PP: No, but I think I will carry pitta bread and hummus to eat!

WTGY: It's about the Tarahumara indians of Mexico's Copper Canyon. And about running, not wearing running shoes, diet and other stuff.