A load of old cobblers

Yes, it is another help me with shoes thread (physio has asked for 'less stompy'.

1 to 20 of 22 messages
21/09/2012 at 10:45

So sorry to start another new thread on shoes. I promise I have done a search on previous forum topics, but not found what I'm looking for.

I'm under the care of a physio, and he has asked me to consider purchasing some less 'stompy' shoes. By that I think he means more slimline then the ones I have now, but he does not mean completley minimalist. After much consideration he also wants me to keep using my orthotics.

I currently run in Mizuno Enigmas rotating with Brooks Glycerin 9s, which are neutral (my orthotics do all the work I'm told). I find the Mizunos are most comfortable around the toes, and are definitely deep enough for the orthotics...I put them on top of the existing insoles, whereas the Brooks are shallower and I've taken the insoles out of those to fit in the orthotics.

I run with a midfoot strike, and am probably a fairly average weight for my height - I'm not super skinny or anything, so probably do need a bit of cushion?

Thoughts anyone??

I've been looking a bit at the Brooks pure range, but it does say on their website that these are not suitable for orthotics. Any other suggestions? I shall be heading to my local running shop, but I like to have a bit of an idea of what I'm looking for before I get there.

Thank you for your help.

Erika

seren nos    pirate
21/09/2012 at 10:50

did he say why he wants you to make the shoes lest stompy.....and is the physio the same person that gave you the orthotics or is the physio trying to work on the reasons why you need the othotics so that they will not be needed

21/09/2012 at 11:05

Hi Seren,

We're doing a lot of work on strengthening various parts of my body, but my  biomechanics are pretty wonky, and apparently the orthotics will most probably always be needed (I've had them most of my life and have had various biomechanical problems all through my life). I did ask outright whether I could consider at this point running without them, and he said no. They are looked at every few months and regularly adjusted, so maybe in the future it might be possible, but not at the moment.

I think he's concerned that the bulk of the shoe is affecting my feel for the ground and thus how I land (we're doing a lot of work on gait too). Looking at my current shoes, particularly the Mizunos, they are pretty chunky in the sole. Perhaps I just need to go for another neutral Mizuno which isn't quite as heavily cushioned?

Edited: 21/09/2012 at 11:06
seren nos    pirate
21/09/2012 at 11:13

Ah right..........sounds like they are working things right.......and not counteracting each other......

There must be xome less cushioned soles on the market.hopefully someone will come along and help.........

maybe the racing flat shoes..........not as minamilistic as the new barefoot movement.but pretty thin in comparison to the modern ones.....

21/09/2012 at 11:15

A quick look on the web for the Brooks Glycerin and the Mizuno Enigma and they are both are the heavily cushined variety of neutral shoe.  Rather than going towards the minimal padding, you could go to the middle ground. For example the Brooks Ghost is another neutral shoe, but is about 1oz lighter than the Glycerin.

 

Pethead    pirate
21/09/2012 at 11:43

How about an honest pair of racing trainers? I know some people consider them so 2011 compared to the latest barefoot things, but they sound more suitable in this case. 
Few names off the top of my head - Mizuno Wave Musha or Ronin, Asics Gel Skyspeed, Nike Zoom Elite, Saucony Mirage. (And any of the Adidas AdiZeros - I can't tell them apart)

21/09/2012 at 11:48

Thanks guys, it's good to know where to start looking. I've never had a pair of shoes that I love, so any advice helps!

21/09/2012 at 12:15

to turn things completely around so you'll think I'm mad, take a look at the Hoka shoes - http://www.hokaoneone.com/en/hokaeurope.html.

they have the deepest sole of any shoe out there and work almost counter-intuitively for what most people woud think on first look - check out the technology link on that page to see what they're talking about. although they look chunky and heavy they are very lightweight and often lighter than standard runners.

many ultra runners are now using them successfully and people who have suffered with injury are switching as they offer more support and comfort.  quite a few people who've used orthotics have ditched those when running in Hokas.   I've had bad PF since January and have just taken delivery of a pair to see if they do what they claim - 1st run this morning and all good so far but it's very early days still!   the hardest part is getting hold of a pair - they're as rare as rocking horse shit at the moment.  and you need to get the fit right as they do come up snug.

maybe worth discussing with the physio??

Edited: 21/09/2012 at 12:16
21/09/2012 at 12:33

Thanks FB - this is my problem....too much choice. Bearing in mind I struggle choosing from a menu in a restaurant sometimes! I do find the choice in shoes overwhelming when I look online, and conversely I also struggle when it comes to going to a running shop, as a lot of shops tend not to stock much in my size (ladies 8.5) so it can be really difficult to find something I can actually try on to get an idea of fit.

21/09/2012 at 13:06

have a word with Martin or Sue at www.likeys.com about Hokas - they have some limited stick at the mo (all off roaders though - they won't have tarmac ones until December) and Martin is a convert to them, as are many of his customers. I bought elsewhere though as I could only find one supplier who had any stock in my size.

and you're right about choice and conflicting advice - there's too much out there to come to sensible conclusions sometimes.  and then factor in the types of running and their advocates - forefoot, barefoot, Hoka, normal, minimalist, VFF etc - and it gets worse!!

I've tried chaninging my gait and although it's had some success with the PF I'm not convinced it's a cure - the Hokas allow me to stick with my usual gait but the sole helps me keep the weight off the heel with the forward rocking motion.  we shall see as they say!

 

21/09/2012 at 13:12

Thanks FB - just had a look at the website and it is one 'scary' looking shoe

I think there will no doubt be some more trial and error!

Erika

21/09/2012 at 13:15

yeh - it does look a bit like a tugboat but very comfy and easy to run in

21/09/2012 at 13:30

I* wear orthotics with my brooks Pure grit and they fit fine, the shoe has a fair amount of cushioning despite the 4mm differential, they aren't as durable as standard shoes though!

 

Fat Buddha, I had a pair of Hokas, after one mile I had to remove my orthotics, after 2 miles I had to detour home and get the shoes off!!! I tried to wear them on another occasion just walking around the zoo but again after a few hours I couldn't wait to get them off! I sold them on ebay in the end, I can go further without shoes than i could with the hokas!!! I don't get how people wear them the shoes are really stiff!!!

21/09/2012 at 13:40

I'm in a similar question right now... I have been running on Asics Gel Nimbus for a few years, I have pronation/gait issues but have just got some new fitted orthotics to assist.  In theory a neutral shoe is now the one to have... hoever, I'm happy to try a different shoe but scared about making a mistake....

 

I hear about Saucony/Brooks/Mizuno.... does anyone have recommendations?

21/09/2012 at 14:19

touie - interesting to see that you didn't get on with the Hokas but it would seem that people who have switched to them have ditched the orthotics to start with, not run with them in.  the design and construction is supposed to take over from any orthotics that people use so you don't need them.   can't say I found them any stiffer than the Nimbus that I've been wearing for years before the PF flared up and which I've been using an orthotic in since March.

21/09/2012 at 16:04
Yes you definately dont need orthotics with them, the arch is quite built up!I've been wearing pretty soft, light flexible shoes which is probably why they felt so stiff in comparison
21/09/2012 at 23:09

Touie - How do you find having a more flexible shoe with your orthotics? Any problems?

21/09/2012 at 23:15
Mingo - if you can be bothered to read back a bit on the Paris 2013 thread Dark Vader has been experimenting with the Hokas recently as he wanted to do seriously long distances without orthotics which give him blisters. I gather he's planning a 100 mile run in them this weekend so if you drop in there on Sunday he may have reported back on how he got on with them.
21/09/2012 at 23:18

Thanks RR, I'll peek in.

22/09/2012 at 08:25
No problems with flexible shoes and orthotics I much prefer them, I can't seem to run comfortably in anything that doesn't bend now!!!

It may depend on your orthotics mine are 3/4 length so I just slip them under the shoes insole! If you can find the brooks pure shoes in store to try on then go for it, they're like slippers!!!
Edited: 22/09/2012 at 08:28
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