Are structured and motion control trainers a waste of money?

41 to 60 of 62 messages
20/07/2012 at 14:00

I think perhaps with stability shoes it maybe that we need them when we start running and as we get fitter and healthier and strengthen our muscles our running gait should improve and long term we may move into suiting more nutral shoes?

Well I'm hoping so anyway.

20/07/2012 at 14:12

In truth, there are some absolutely awful sports nutrition products on the market.  The BBC probably missed the worst examples.  You know the Lucozade Sports Body Fuel Jelly Beans?  They are just ordinary jelly beans in a different packet, sold at a much higher price. 

So what do I actualy put my hand in my pocket and buy?

I have never used sports drinks.  I ran Comrades using nothing but water. 

I do use electrolyte replacement tablets, but only on events of 40 miles or longer. 

I use gels, but only on events of 20 miles or longer. 

The only products I use in training are recovery shakes, which I do rate. 

 With regard to the "drink to thirst theory" I suggest that you wait for a lot more evidence before adopting it. 

Edited: 20/07/2012 at 14:14
20/07/2012 at 14:56

AliBear30 yes i agree with you,i have flate wide feet and every year its a panic geting the right shoe,but now ive tweeked my running style and got fitter i could run in almost anytghing as long as its wide (2e)

Now looking for trail shoes,dont mind minimal style but wide is a big problem..why dont they do wide fit in more brands!!

20/07/2012 at 19:28
JLB3 wrote (see

"The most important predictors for injuries are distance, recovery time, intensity and those type of things... the shoes come very, very later as minor contributors."

I tend to agree with the above (except maybe that shoes contribute slightly more than they say).

So the mosy imporatant consideration then is surely FIT.

People classed as needing neutral shoes tend to have medium/high to high arches. Consequently most neutral shoes are built on the kind of last to fit that foot shape best.

People with medium/low to low arches supposedly need stability or motion control shoes. So those kind of shoes have historically been built on a slightly straighter last to fit that foot shape.

So if you forego the 'traditional' gait analysis and just pay attention to choosing the shoe with perfect fit - the shoe you end up with will probably be of the same type as if you had had it pescribed based on the stability level!

20/07/2012 at 23:49

I tried sugar free Zero tabs, but found I couldn't stomach them on long runs. They didn't make me feel sick but the electrolyte drink really didn't quench my thirst in the slightest. After 25 miles my body was just begging for plain old water.

I don't rate recovery shakes at all. After a marathon/ultra, I eat a banana, drink at least a pint of milk, stick my legs in the air and do self-massage on my quads for half an hour, then pull on compression socks. That's my recovery routine and it works great.

21/07/2012 at 11:30

There are supermarket products that are effective as recovery drinks.  Where I think that the manufacturers of the recovery products have an argument, is in the fact that the body absorbs them more quickly.  Something like a Yazoo will work, but some technical products such as SIS Rego are water based, which aids rapid absorbtion. 

24/07/2012 at 10:36

This was very an interesting programme, particularly the part about running shoes. I have been convinced for over 5 years that the cure of my ITB syndrome was being advised and sold a set of stability shoes. When the new model was to narrow for my foot, I thought I would be in trouble!

The problem was as I fatigued on longer runs my knees drifted inwards, weak glutes.

Had a gait analysis recently  and the guy said I was a neutral, which I couldn’t disagree with from the video it was clear. I recently ran 20 miles in a set of trainers that I wear for my comfy around town shoes, these are neutral – but really comfortable.

I have built my glute medius up, I stretch  and foam roll the ITB’s and think about running with good form as I get tired, i.e. don’t let my knees collapse in past my midline.

Chances are my original injury was from training too hard too soon, lots of hills and inadequate control from my glute medius, not my running shoes, I really believe in my case it was placebo effect.

 

26/07/2012 at 00:50

re shoes iam due a new pair soon...and i have flat feet.iamgoing got nb 860 2e as they are so comfy..i dont like motion control shoes as they ar etoo bulky.

Just for fun on my next run iam going to use my tatty old trainers..760`s which i was told at the time were not enough support(ran a few halfs in them)..

will try them after a year of running in them and 1 year at work in them just to see if its down to running style,they are knackard!!

 

My style had got better now,so i think that maybe motion control shoes ar ebetter if you start running but maybe get away with stability ;ater on,iamment to be in 940`s but dont like the lump of plastic they call stability core,i can feel it!

26/07/2012 at 12:58
I have sworn by my nike equalons and have had 6 pairs but they are now defunct so I've got to think again. Rarely been injured since getting them but I do now wonder if that is just the progress with my running strength.
26/07/2012 at 19:42
I reckon it was!
27/07/2012 at 10:25

and I ran yesterday in an old pair with 500 miles in them and they were ok-ish as I ran quickly. Like someone else said, these problems sometimes kick in with slow runs when form can be neglected.

27/07/2012 at 17:12
I always think how Iam running...all the time
31/07/2012 at 17:49

 With regard to the "drink to thirst theory" I suggest that you wait for a lot more evidence before adopting it. 

With regard to anything OTHER than "drink to thirst theory" I'd suggest you wait for a lot more evidence before adopting it.

31/07/2012 at 17:55

I beleive running form has FAR MORE impact on causing or avoiding running injuries than a bit of hard rubber on parts of shoes. It's just that most runners don't want to invest their time and effort in improving how they run - instead, hand over a credit card for a new pair of shoes - job done (or so they believe...which, like placibo often does the trick just as well)

31/07/2012 at 18:02

Running shop 'experts' are quite able to spot your foot over-pronating on the video -hell, I'm no expert, but I reckon I could too! And sure, they can put you in a different shoe which may eliminate that, and show you the evidence of that too. That's all they do! There is then a HUGE assumption on theirs and your part that that was the cause and now the fix to the injury problem. Anything after this is anecdotal.

31/07/2012 at 23:00

Ive really gone though some changes in my style, i only started running a few years ago ,and my style then was terrible.

I used to heal strike,look down too much(in a scrunched up way) croos my arms over while running.

 

Now things are way more of a relax comfortable style, and iam getting afaster with no injurys.

01/08/2012 at 08:26

I'm well over 6' and was overweight when I started running in a pair of neutral shoes. I was in agony in no time - but thought (stupidly) it was a case of 'no pain no gain'. After visiting a proper running shop I was sold some Mizuno Wave Nirvanas and I was in running heaven - it's like they're made for me. I've stuck with them ever since. Recently, the shop had no Nirvanas in and I tried another structured shoe by a leading brand - the result was agony: blisters, calf and shin pain - I ordered another pair of Nirvanas and I'm right as rain again. For me there's no argument - the shoes make every bit of difference, and whilst I might not like paying a lot for them, I love running, so that's the deal. I think the number one advice is always listen to what your body is telling you - not the BBC, not Murdoch - just get on and enjoy your running!

01/08/2012 at 10:45

State my position first... I own a running store, I studied podiatry at Uni in Sheffield. I have attended more CPD courses in soft tissue, lower limb mechanics & about to complete the england athletic endurance coach in running fitness course.

How many of you all out there have bothered to learn to run correctly ? If you wanted to get good at golf or tennis would you not have thought about have at least 2 or 3 lessons? Most people who run/jog don't.

Technical running shoes/sports orthortics are designed to do the extra load/effort that we are not prepared to do.

If we are talking about the 'correct' way to run, then I fully agree with many on here that lower, flatter and less structured footwear is correct. But that comes with a correct way of landing, control of impact, a fully laid out training plan with significant levels of recovery and 'core control' training. Using plyometric running techniques and no junk miles.

If the mass of runners in the world can abide by just some of the basic rules above, then the companies will slow down the creation and production of over heavy, over supportive footwear. The need for this type of runnng shoe would reduce.

But most people, overtrain, have poor technique and just want a pair of shoes that feel like they are strong, supportive and have lots of cushioning.

The shoe compaines, are just that, companies. Required to make money. They are creating what MOST ruuners say they like.

With the development of bare foot/minimal/natural motion shoes, when you go into a running specialist store, you now have a choice. Do you want the shoe to do the work (structured & cushioned) or do you want to do the work.

We now give our customers the option. If we 'motion test' them and see an excessive pronation, we ask 'do they want to train their mechanics to cope with the excessive motion, or do they want the shoes to help and guide the action?'

The vast majority choose 'shoe do the work please ' !!

01/08/2012 at 13:41

Jethro, very interesting. So, some customers show excessive pronation.....so what? Why do you have to correct it?

01/08/2012 at 22:13

I find buying shoes a right pain! wish companys kept the same model and just changed the colour each year.

I really stuck at the moment on what to try,got a couple of months and iam due some new ones.and trail shoes as well.

 

running is the easy bit!

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