Gait analysis, as waste of time?

121 to 140 of 186 messages
02/01/2014 at 18:56

Wow! That's really creepy

02/01/2014 at 19:34

I take it you wont be coming for a gait analysis any time soon then Grinch?

02/01/2014 at 20:14
Ben Davies 15 wrote (see)
They look at whether the customer is landing on the heel or the forefoot, because while most shoes are good for heel strikers, many are crap for forefoot strikers.  Above all they look at the customers history more, in terms of previous injuries and what has worked for them in the past. 

 

 

Hi Ben sorry for para phrasing you above but I just wondered what your thoughts are fore foot runners and shoe type? If you were still a Sweatshop employee and you had a new runner come in with no shoe history but asked for gait analysis and who clearly demonstrated entirely fore foot running, ie heels not touching at all, how would you deal with that customer?

02/01/2014 at 22:23
Lå®Ð䮧€ wrote (see)
Ben Davies 15 wrote (see)
They look at whether the customer is landing on the heel or the forefoot, because while most shoes are good for heel strikers, many are crap for forefoot strikers.  Above all they look at the customers history more, in terms of previous injuries and what has worked for them in the past. 

 

 

Hi Ben sorry for para phrasing you above but I just wondered what your thoughts are fore foot runners and shoe type? If you were still a Sweatshop employee and you had a new runner come in with no shoe history but asked for gait analysis and who clearly demonstrated entirely fore foot running, ie heels not touching at all, how would you deal with that customer?

No problem. 

 

A forefoot striker will usually be a neutral runner by default, though you get the odd exception.  It is still worth checking. 

The main issue you have when serving a forefoot striker, is the fact that most shoes are designed around heel strikers.  Pick the shoe up and have a look at it.  Has the manufacturer designed it with a forefoot striker in mind?  Whether the manufacturer uses a gel, or foam or spring like mechanism, have they concentrated it all in the heel and neglected the forefoot area?  If they have then the shoe will likely have a more aggressive drop, which in turn will make it less suitable for a forefoot striker. 

I would typically offer the customer a choice of slightly more responsive shoes if they land on the forefoot, and I would lean towards ones with less drop.  When the customer tried them on, I would tell them to get up on their tip toes and bounce in them, to better evaluate how they feel when you toe off in them.  I have sometimes lined shoes up on their sides against each other, so that the customer can compare their shape in terms of how they are designed for a forefoot striker.  If you are a forefoot striker, then you must chose the shoe based on the design of its forefoot, and how well it suits your style. 

02/01/2014 at 23:07

OK, a couple of points. 

Nikes don’t really have a bias in the design towards heel strikers, because the air cells run the full length of the shoe.  If you want a cushioned Nike for a forefoot striker, then you could try on the Vomero and see how you like the feel.  The NB 1080 is actual another one that I would have suggested. 

Alternatively, if the Sketchers are working for you, it might be worth sticking with them. 

03/01/2014 at 23:10

I must take exception to Flob calling me an arrogant twit earlier. 

I mean, who was he calling a twit?

04/01/2014 at 10:12

I think the only "evidence" they are interested in is that they sell shoes. Of course they need a few Bens to be able to say black is white and white is black and talk as if they are knowledgable. Ben should move into politics. I'm sure he could hold his own amongst the other twits on Question Time who never answer the question or consider what others have said and then spout their own rhetoric. No offence Ben

05/01/2014 at 11:48
The Grinch wrote (see)

I think the only "evidence" they are interested in is that they sell shoes. Of course they need a few Bens to be able to say black is white and white is black and talk as if they are knowledgable. Ben should move into politics. I'm sure he could hold his own amongst the other twits on Question Time who never answer the question or consider what others have said and then spout their own rhetoric. No offence Ben

I think that you are making Sweatshop out to be a lot more organised and calculating than they actually are.  The truth is that they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.  They don’t even keep accurate records of how much stock they loose to shoplifters for example.  I genuinely found working with them frustrating at times.  

Interestingly, more people following this thread seem to be interested in the views of the blood sucking shoe salesman, than the naysayers, so to that extent they must have got something right.   

05/01/2014 at 14:31

Minimalist shoes encourage correct form and technique. Mid foot and fore foot strike is promoted by minimalist running shoes, correct technique. Minimalist shoes cure pronation by forcing the runner to run on his/her fore foot or mid foot. How do I cure and prevent pronation:  I wear minimalist shoes and land fore foot strike every time. When my heel does not touch ground, no pronation.

It is bad advice to recommend stability or motion control shoes to prevent pronation. In actual fact stability and motion control shoes magnify the pronation problem due to high heel raises that naturally forces a runner to heel strike. Minimalist shoes with lower heel raises encourage fore foot and mid foot strike that reduces injury risk. Minimalist shoes help to prevent pronation and stability/motion control shoes enhance pronation.

05/01/2014 at 14:41

Almost agree 100% with RoadWarrior, excpet I think that minimal shoes will encourage better texhnique ONLY if you know what that is and feels like. When you know what it is, you can feel it better with less padding under foot, but I see many runners heel striking in minimal footwear. 70% of proprioception comes from your feet -put a thick rubber pad between your feet and the ground and that's reduced to zero.

PS. I can't beleive this thread is still going on. Ben, you are one stubborn f*****

 

05/01/2014 at 14:56

I too almost agree with RoadWarrior.

BUT

minimalist shoes will help with pronation perse but the technique in learning minimalist running (in some examples ) is so long winded and difficult to people that are impatient. 

The risks are outweighed in my opinion but, the people I have seen have transitioned successfully.

plus minimalist running is a whole other debate 

05/01/2014 at 16:11

I did actually ask Hugh Brasher the minimalist question once.  He said that Sweatshops position was that they did not know the long term effects of minimalist/barefoot running, so they were not prepared to advocate it at this stage.  I was a bit of a rogue operator within Sweatshop, because I would help a customer to make the transition to barefoot running if the approached me and asked me to do it. 

We were always under strict instructions never to tinker with a customers ru8nning style, for fear that somebody might sue the company.  It is worth noting that they had no comparable concerns regarding gait analysis.  I am not saying that improving a persons running style is not beneficial, or that it is not the answer to your problems, but it is not something that should be undertaken lightly.  A lot of people have done a lot of harm by taking a person with no history of injuries, and trying to make them run in a different way.  It is certainly not something that a retailer should get involved in. 

05/01/2014 at 16:42

Ben. I agree with you!

 

06/01/2014 at 02:09

Running shoe companies have been treating pronation like a form of cancer and they have designed shoes to try and cure and prevent pronation. Running shoe companies introduced high heeled shoes to correct and to prevent pronation. Unfortunately that  has lead to more heel striking leading to more pronation leading to more injury. Pronation is the heel striking the ground and your foot  rolls in or rolls out to absorb the impact from the heel strike. It makes logical sense to avoid heel strike and to run forefoot and mid foot in a way to avoid or reduce pronation.

Bare foot is the best way to cure or prevent pronation at no cost.  However minimalist shoes protect the bare foot from the ground and are the closest thing to mimicking the natural motion of the bare foot. High heeled traditional shoes result in an unnatural heel strike and results in more pronation caused by more heel striking. By switching to a minimalist shoe between 0 to 6mm drop pronation can be eliminated or reduced by forcing you to avoid heel striking. 

I plan on running a marathon bare foot and run an Ultra Marathon in the future bare foot to  test out the bare foot theory. Why use running shoes when your bare feet work more efficiently, naturally at no cost?

06/01/2014 at 07:54

I think you will be fairly brutally disabused of the bare foot theory, if you try an ultra that has a lot of scree in it. 

06/01/2014 at 11:08

Fitting shoes to match the shape of the foot is critical. If your foot is straight, curved or semi curved ensure you get a shoe that is the same shape as your foot ad comfortably fits your foot with a little wiggle room for your toes. If the shoe does not fit do not buy it. A shoe should be a perfect fit and comfortable from the beginning. Wearing in a shoe is an urban myth. 

07/01/2014 at 16:55

I do not believe any transitioning needs to take place when running minimalist shoes or running bare foot. All runners can run bare foot or run in minimalist shoes. Transitioning to minimalist shoes by buying lots of shoes of slightly lower drops  is what I believe to be cheating. The sense of victory/achievement is hollow and empty when you cheat. 

07/01/2014 at 17:17

I actually think you mean that

Tell me I'm wrong.

07/01/2014 at 17:37

There is a shop that has sold barefoot trainers for decades for only 2.50 pounds. It's called marks and sparks and the shoes are called plimsolls. Anyone who pays 140 quid for a shoe that is all marketing is a big numpty. 

07/01/2014 at 17:46

Why wear heavy shoes that only slow runners down?

Most runners should buy shoes based on low weights and low heel drops or run bare foot. Shoes that have a world record ran in them should be top of your to buy list. If we get the same shoe as the world record holder we can get on a level playing field and give us all a better chance of running better times. 

 

121 to 140 of 186 messages
Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump