Gait analysis, as waste of time?

141 to 160 of 210 messages
03/01/2014 at 23:43

You answered your own rhetorical question in the first sentence, thereby making my point in a much clearer way than I could.

I thought you'd have moved on by now due to all of your so called evidence actually turning out to contradict your argument

04/01/2014 at 10:12

I think the only "evidence" they are interested in is that they sell shoes. Of course they need a few Bens to be able to say black is white and white is black and talk as if they are knowledgable. Ben should move into politics. I'm sure he could hold his own amongst the other twits on Question Time who never answer the question or consider what others have said and then spout their own rhetoric. No offence Ben

04/01/2014 at 17:04
Got to agree with you again Grinchy. Anyone who starts a statement with "let's be clear about this" or anything similar is either a politician or a numpty, or possibly both.
What I find most amusing is the fact that none of Ben's evidence actually supports his point of view. Again pointing towards a political mind.
05/01/2014 at 11:48
The Grinch wrote (see)

I think the only "evidence" they are interested in is that they sell shoes. Of course they need a few Bens to be able to say black is white and white is black and talk as if they are knowledgable. Ben should move into politics. I'm sure he could hold his own amongst the other twits on Question Time who never answer the question or consider what others have said and then spout their own rhetoric. No offence Ben

I think that you are making Sweatshop out to be a lot more organised and calculating than they actually are.  The truth is that they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.  They don’t even keep accurate records of how much stock they loose to shoplifters for example.  I genuinely found working with them frustrating at times.  

Interestingly, more people following this thread seem to be interested in the views of the blood sucking shoe salesman, than the naysayers, so to that extent they must have got something right.   

05/01/2014 at 14:31

Minimalist shoes encourage correct form and technique. Mid foot and fore foot strike is promoted by minimalist running shoes, correct technique. Minimalist shoes cure pronation by forcing the runner to run on his/her fore foot or mid foot. How do I cure and prevent pronation:  I wear minimalist shoes and land fore foot strike every time. When my heel does not touch ground, no pronation.

It is bad advice to recommend stability or motion control shoes to prevent pronation. In actual fact stability and motion control shoes magnify the pronation problem due to high heel raises that naturally forces a runner to heel strike. Minimalist shoes with lower heel raises encourage fore foot and mid foot strike that reduces injury risk. Minimalist shoes help to prevent pronation and stability/motion control shoes enhance pronation.

05/01/2014 at 14:41

Almost agree 100% with RoadWarrior, excpet I think that minimal shoes will encourage better texhnique ONLY if you know what that is and feels like. When you know what it is, you can feel it better with less padding under foot, but I see many runners heel striking in minimal footwear. 70% of proprioception comes from your feet -put a thick rubber pad between your feet and the ground and that's reduced to zero.

PS. I can't beleive this thread is still going on. Ben, you are one stubborn f*****

 

05/01/2014 at 14:56

I too almost agree with RoadWarrior.

BUT

minimalist shoes will help with pronation perse but the technique in learning minimalist running (in some examples ) is so long winded and difficult to people that are impatient. 

The risks are outweighed in my opinion but, the people I have seen have transitioned successfully.

plus minimalist running is a whole other debate 

05/01/2014 at 16:11

I did actually ask Hugh Brasher the minimalist question once.  He said that Sweatshops position was that they did not know the long term effects of minimalist/barefoot running, so they were not prepared to advocate it at this stage.  I was a bit of a rogue operator within Sweatshop, because I would help a customer to make the transition to barefoot running if the approached me and asked me to do it. 

We were always under strict instructions never to tinker with a customers ru8nning style, for fear that somebody might sue the company.  It is worth noting that they had no comparable concerns regarding gait analysis.  I am not saying that improving a persons running style is not beneficial, or that it is not the answer to your problems, but it is not something that should be undertaken lightly.  A lot of people have done a lot of harm by taking a person with no history of injuries, and trying to make them run in a different way.  It is certainly not something that a retailer should get involved in. 

05/01/2014 at 16:42

Ben. I agree with you!

 

06/01/2014 at 02:09

Running shoe companies have been treating pronation like a form of cancer and they have designed shoes to try and cure and prevent pronation. Running shoe companies introduced high heeled shoes to correct and to prevent pronation. Unfortunately that  has lead to more heel striking leading to more pronation leading to more injury. Pronation is the heel striking the ground and your foot  rolls in or rolls out to absorb the impact from the heel strike. It makes logical sense to avoid heel strike and to run forefoot and mid foot in a way to avoid or reduce pronation.

Bare foot is the best way to cure or prevent pronation at no cost.  However minimalist shoes protect the bare foot from the ground and are the closest thing to mimicking the natural motion of the bare foot. High heeled traditional shoes result in an unnatural heel strike and results in more pronation caused by more heel striking. By switching to a minimalist shoe between 0 to 6mm drop pronation can be eliminated or reduced by forcing you to avoid heel striking. 

I plan on running a marathon bare foot and run an Ultra Marathon in the future bare foot to  test out the bare foot theory. Why use running shoes when your bare feet work more efficiently, naturally at no cost?

06/01/2014 at 07:54

I think you will be fairly brutally disabused of the bare foot theory, if you try an ultra that has a lot of scree in it. 

06/01/2014 at 11:08

Fitting shoes to match the shape of the foot is critical. If your foot is straight, curved or semi curved ensure you get a shoe that is the same shape as your foot ad comfortably fits your foot with a little wiggle room for your toes. If the shoe does not fit do not buy it. A shoe should be a perfect fit and comfortable from the beginning. Wearing in a shoe is an urban myth. 

06/01/2014 at 13:58
Running in 12mm drop shoes is actually about saving energy and has been proven to do this. It is also about preventing Achilles damage when running as running flat footed creates much more stretch and force than walking flat-footed.
I land on my outside fore foot, My foot rolls in to flat then I toe off. I would not want to not pronate because that helps dissipate the force of landing.
I wear 4mm drop shoes with lots of cushion so I am neither in traditional not barefoot camps but I find ROADWARRIORs statements a little over zealous due to, dare I saw it, a lack of indisputable scientific evidence from a range of double blind studies that say that minimalist shoes are better.
I think it is horses for courses and go with what I am comfy in. That is how I select shoes and I agree with RWs statement on comfort being king. I just don't think they have to be comfortable minimalist shoes.
07/01/2014 at 16:55

I do not believe any transitioning needs to take place when running minimalist shoes or running bare foot. All runners can run bare foot or run in minimalist shoes. Transitioning to minimalist shoes by buying lots of shoes of slightly lower drops  is what I believe to be cheating. The sense of victory/achievement is hollow and empty when you cheat. 

07/01/2014 at 17:17

I actually think you mean that

Tell me I'm wrong.

07/01/2014 at 17:29

So when someone beats you in 14mm drop shoes and you are wearing just vibration white toes and blisters then they have cheated! You need to put the IIAF straight, they have got their whole set up wrong. 

I no more agree with road warrior than I do with Ben, but I do admire their blind faith.

Almost all world records have been set by people in traditional (high drop) shoes... but not many if any in stability nor motion control shoes.... 

That kind of shuts down both RWs and BDs arguments.

07/01/2014 at 17:37

There is a shop that has sold barefoot trainers for decades for only 2.50 pounds. It's called marks and sparks and the shoes are called plimsolls. Anyone who pays 140 quid for a shoe that is all marketing is a big numpty. 

07/01/2014 at 17:46

Why wear heavy shoes that only slow runners down?

Most runners should buy shoes based on low weights and low heel drops or run bare foot. Shoes that have a world record ran in them should be top of your to buy list. If we get the same shoe as the world record holder we can get on a level playing field and give us all a better chance of running better times. 

 

07/01/2014 at 18:00

I think I don't have the energy to argue with the barefoot scientologists

07/01/2014 at 18:00

I weqr plimsols all the time for knocking around but only run in them if I am late for a train etc. 

most of the people who set world records for long distance actually learned to run without shoes. Then they moved to shoes when they became proper runners. I don't see how that does not compute for barefoot zealots like RW, but as I say I admire your faith.

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