I think I don't have the energy to argue with the barefoot scientologists
Flob wrote (see)
So when someone beats you in 14mm drop shoes and you are wearing just vibration white toes and blisters then they have cheated! You need to put the IIAF straight, they have got their whole set up wrong. I no more agree with road warrior than I do with Ben, but I do admire their blind faith. Almost all world records have been set by people in traditional (high drop) shoes... but not many if any in stability nor motion control shoes.... That kind of shuts down both RWs and BDs arguments.
So when someone beats you in 14mm drop shoes and you are wearing just vibration white toes and blisters then they have cheated! You need to put the IIAF straight, they have got their whole set up wrong.
I no more agree with road warrior than I do with Ben, but I do admire their blind faith.
Almost all world records have been set by people in traditional (high drop) shoes... but not many if any in stability nor motion control shoes....
That kind of shuts down both RWs and BDs arguments.
I don’t see how that is particularly damaging to my argument.
I don’t advocate support shoes because they offer an inherent advantage, I advocate them to correct a pre-existing problem in some people, sometimes only temporarily.
It might be the case that people who pronate excessively are less likely to get to world level, or it might be that such people become neutral runners due to their feet becoming stronger as their mileage increases.
I used to love barefoot runners when I worked in the industry though. I could sell them an intermediate pair of shoes to convert them to a barefoot running style, then sell them a pair of Vibram Five Fighters a couple of months later. I did not persist too hard in arguing with them.
You should have gone straight to selling them the Vibrams, because it's cheating to have an intermediate transitional shoe.
To me running is more than whether you finish higher in the race or win medals/prize money.
What happened to the idea of running as something you enjoy running?
When I run bare foot or with minimalist shoes on long runs and marathons it draws me closer to reaching spiritual nirvana.
Most runners are not African born elite runners that have a chance of winning races and or setting world records in long distance events.
Obviously most runners aren't elite. That would be a contradiction. And immigration hasn't got to a stage where most people are African either.
If you have read the book Born to Run you’ll have to answer to why your calves are sore. The biggest advancement in human evolution that made us bred to be runners was the use of an Achilles Tendon. The Achilles Tendon is the most underused running advantage in the human species. Ever since we have been wearing running shoes with raised heel cushioning we have handicapped our ability to use the rubber band reaction of our Achilles Tendons. Run barefoot and strengthen your Achilles Tendon, and your stride will be more powerful.
The science behind MacDougall’s claims is impressive, led by a Newcastle University (Australia) study which found no evidence-based research to show high-tech running shoes are in any way beneficial.
MacDougall’s thesis boils down to this: the best shoes are the worst (one report suggested you are 123% more likely to sustain injury in more expensive shoes, because they offer too much support); feet like impact (and “it’s preposterous to think that half an inch of rubber is going to make a difference” when 12 times your bodyweight pounds through them); and finally, that humans are designed to run shoeless, and shoes weaken you. He cites one doctor who describes them having the same wasting effect as plaster casts.
I started to read born to run this holiday. Seems that when you are tired and ready to drop you just drink some goji berry juice and you can run all day. Makes you wonder why we aren't all drinking goji berry juice all the time doesn't it. That is in the first few chapters. Wonder what equally ludicrous stories are in the rest of the book.
I believe all Kenyan elites could break 2 hours in the marathon if they raced without shoes. Maybe they should Train in shoes but race without shoes.
Yeah, but you believe that running barefoot will take you to spiritual nirvana Mr Scientologist
At which stage of the race would their Achilles heels snap?
I have bought over 10 pairs of minimalist shoes to build towards a sub 3 hour marathon ran without shoes. I aim to do this without shoes. My current marathon PB is 3 hours and 9 minutes. I see shoes as evil and having no weight on heel and running barefoot will help me achieve my goal bare foot.
I will train in my minimalist shoes but I will use my own two feet as my racing flats. I hope all the stars align and the lucky ducks line up in a row and I will achieve my goal. VFF are a minimalist shoe but it would feel like a hollow victory if I ran a sub 3 hour in VFF. It must be bare foot 3 hour marathon.
Bare foot sub 3 hour marathon. Believe!
I know another zealot who went on and on about barefoot marathoning. Loads of on- line posts going on about how great it was. One year he ran a marathon. I was very slow that year and we ran together for a while. By mile 16 he dropped the pace big time and by the end he had finished an hour behind my steady pace. Funnily enough he never put any of that on any of his blogs or facebook pages. Weird eh? Since then, despite being an exercise fanatic he does parkrun barefoot and yet despite being at least 20 years younger he can't get near my times for 5k either. Funny how the barefoot fanatics go quiet when it all goes tits up isn't it?
Ben- have you never heard of of Haile Gebrselassie? He 'overpronates' and only his medial side if the foot is on the ground when he pushes off. Bekele and Farah both also pronate a lot- but just not quite as much as selassie. I don't see them running in stability or motion control shoes because of their strong bio mechanical efficient form.
I dont know what Haile Gebrselassie trains in, but even if he did use stability shoes in training, he probably wouldn't use them in an actual race. People in the elite field who use stability shoes in training, usualy switch to a lighter and less suportive shoe for the race itself.
For athletes maybe something in it but Joe soap it's not going to sort much.Gel insoles are as far as I go to rectify anything.
Best thread ever...
no - if done correctly with all the correct "chat"
best PLACEBO ever for avoiding injuries.
I do not listen to experts trying to tell me that I need a stability/motion control shoe(nonsense).You are not me and your advice falls upon deaf ears.I buy the shoes I want and I do things my way!I have found that stability/motion control shoes never worked for me they lead to my feet hurting with those shoes working against my body and over correcting a problem that was not there.Evidence is being revealed that shoe companies were wrong by pushing high heeled shoes and pushed more and more gimmicky features in running shoes over time.Minimalist shoes is a return to the 1970s/80s when canvas running shoes worked.Why try and fix something that is not broken?Wake up and see the truth.
The fastest runners pronate, its the sprinters domain. The fastest distance runners pronate since they just exercise a sustained sprint.
Pronate, supinate. Its something we're born with. Short of smashing up your ankle joints and rebuilding them there's not much one can do to change them.
The problem with pronation is that its not very efficient at low speeds or in my case, mud. The runners I see who get the most speed out of low fitness levels have dead straight ankles or supinate.
As for the marathon, due to the long term fatigue effects its probably the straight ankle form that prevails.
I believe the top elite runners could save 5 to 6 seconds per mile over the marathon by shredding the weight of a shoe and manning up and running bare foot. 3.5 to 4 minutes could be shaved off world record time by shifting to bare foot. Running without shoes, without the ankle weights shoe impose could very well lead to running faster times. If the average runners can save minutes on their long distance races by shifting to bare foot running. Imagine what the elite runners could do if they ran bare foot ala Adebe Bikilia style?
I have a belief that running shoes are a heavy resistant force that slows runners down and does not really do much by just being a status symbol of perceived wealth and power. Runners wearing expensive shoes is show boating wealth just like a person wearing a Rolex watch, wearing designer label clothes, driving an expensive Sports car, owning a yacht or owning a mansion and investment property/share portfolio.
By simply removing shoes and running bare foot a runner can run his best time possible if he/she believes. It is the fear and conservative nature most runners have that they will not give a bare foot marathon a shot.
More efficient stride and carrying less weight resistance force will help generate faster speeds and faster times. Shoes are a resistance force slowing runner down. Remove shoes and reveal the true speed and time runner could achieve. Because of the conservative nature of most runners they do not want to take the risk of running without shoes.
Christopher McDougall has a lot to answer for!
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