Average pace

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14/09/2012 at 19:48
Hi all, really strange one and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. I live in Oldham and it is very hilly - normally would someone make back there time going downhill after running up? The reason for me asking is I am doing the GNR this weekend and it is flat, should I keep my average pace to what I do in Oldham on hills? Thank you in advance!
14/09/2012 at 20:56

I dont think you can compare the two. You will go out there, with an agenda in mind, but your body will tell you something different to what you want your body to do. I think you should just run the first mile, and see what feels comfortable, then take it up a notch if it feels right. Be in mind as well, that the way we approach hills and downhills with our running, is going to be different to how you run on a flat. It might take a little adjustment to begin with...

Edited: 14/09/2012 at 20:57
14/09/2012 at 21:04
tony thorpe wrote (see)
normally would someone make back there time going downhill after running up?


No.

Running downhill you've got gravity on your side but it's not like freewheeling on the bike; every time your foot hits the ground your muscles are actually working as brakes to stabilise you, so running up and down, on average, is much less efficient than running on the flat.  So you will be able to run a quicker average pace on a flatter course.

14/09/2012 at 21:12
Thanks both, I will let you know how different it is after the GNR this weekend. Hopefully with the atmosphere and all the energy gels my average will be up anyway (I hope)!
15/09/2012 at 06:18

No you will not catch up the time on the downhills, that's why people look for flat courses to do fast times. You should usually be faster on a flat course.

However, a word of caution. When you run downhill you do get a break, and a chance to recover, on the flat it is constant grind. If all your training has been done on hilly routes you may find it feels quite challenging to run 13 miles on flattish terrain. Although I live in a hilly area, and think I do benefit from extra strength from them, I try to include some much flatter runs regularly in my training so I am used to the flat as well.

You'll just have to go and see - may well find it much easier and a bit faster, but don't be suprised if not. Remember the crowds of runners will slow you down (unles syou are right at the front or the back) & don't waste too much energy dodging round them in the first few miles.

15/09/2012 at 10:17
I struggle with this as well. I'm not sure if it's the fact that I train on a hilly course, or I just need to improve fitness/endurance. I expect it's the later

I did a 10k training run last night and went out purposefully quickly (for me), just to see how I got on. For the first 3 miles I was on for a PB on this hilly course (probably 1 min under my 49:30 PB) but ended up slowing drastically in the last half and coming in at around my PB anyway (but feeling pretty rough at the end...).

The time/elevation is here if anyone is interested and can comment:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/222587183

Is it worth me trying a 10k on a flat course to see how I get on and have something to compare against?

If it's the fact I need to improve endurance/fitness, I'll keep plodding on and see if I improve.
15/09/2012 at 12:31

Give it a go Big G!

Running on the flat is definitely quicker, just doing go in expecting it to be dead easy. Think it was Greg Lemond who said "It doesn't get any easier, I just get faster." 

15/09/2012 at 13:08

You'll definitely be faster on a flat course. By way of example we have two parkruns in the Glasgow area, one hilly and one flat and most people are up to a minute faster on the flat one.

15/09/2012 at 14:19

I go on effort, rather than pace. I too train on quite hilly routes and my races are often quite a lot flatter than my training is so on race day I will try to run based on the percieved effort. If, on race day, it all feels very easy, because you're on the flat, then you probably have some room to up the pace a notch or two. If you find you're struggling, you've probably been lulled into going out too fast by how flat the course is, so will need to slow down.

It's a cliche but, listen to your body.

Big_G: I'm the same. I have a flat 10K race on Sunday and am aiming to run about what your PB is. All my training is on hills, so I've not got anywhere near that time on training runs and neither have I expected to (or tried to). I am hoping that the flat course will give me the help I need to make that time.

15/09/2012 at 18:22
Tony - a word of warning - you mention 'all the energy gels' helping you on the day. Have you been using these gels in training? It's really not a good idea to try out gels under race conditions, or to increase consumption beyond what you're used to. If you discover on the day that they don't agree with you, there can be disastrous consequences for the digestive system. If you haven't tried them before, I'd forget about them on the day - you don't really need them for a half marathon.
15/09/2012 at 18:56
Running Rodent wrote (see)
Tony - a word of warning - you mention 'all the energy gels' helping you on the day. Have you been using these gels in training? It's really not a good idea to try out gels under race conditions, or to increase consumption beyond what you're used to. If you discover on the day that they don't agree with you, there can be disastrous consequences for the digestive system. If you haven't tried them before, I'd forget about them on the day - you don't really need them for a half marathon.

I agreed with Rodent. Gells are very individual and i have known enough people who have been sick on them, to tread the water carefully. I take them, but no more than three in a half marathon, and i think it is partly, in the head, you think they are going to work better for you. I take the zero tablets which i feel work better since stabilise your body better.

15/09/2012 at 19:43

I don't take any in a half.

15/09/2012 at 20:03

unless it's a hot or humid day, no real need to take fluids in a half either, unless you're running for 2hours or so.

16/09/2012 at 09:19
Ok 20min before I set off and thought I would have a quick look on here, glad I did going to scrap the gels.... I have not used them in a good while and I know I can do without.

Thanks
16/09/2012 at 19:15

How did it go?

16/09/2012 at 19:58
Did you survive?
Edited: 16/09/2012 at 19:58
17/09/2012 at 15:58
It went well, I changed my mind again about gels, I had one at the start and one half way. Took 30seconds off my average pace which I was really happy about. Definitely going to do a couple of flats runs before I do it next year tho so I have an idea of how fast to go. 1hr 47min I did it in.

I am typing this in a and e however, the last 3 miles my ankle started hurting (I didn't trip or twist it) felt my my laces were too tight and now I am strugglin to walk. Hopefully it won't be anything to bad :-/
17/09/2012 at 17:18
Sprained ligament - well worth the 2hr wait!
17/09/2012 at 17:52

I love the way you start by saying it went really well, your time and your plans for the next one before casually dropping in that you're in a and e!

Good time though, well done.

17/09/2012 at 20:37
Great attitude - here's hoping rest and ice sort it out. And glad to hear the gels didn't cause any issues!
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