Cheating must be worth it?

1 to 20 of 36 messages
03/05/2014 at 13:58

Lance Armstrong  was reputed to be worth $125M

F...ing right it is worth it

Maybe we should talk about people who have died as a direct result of doping? Or the ones who have become crippled?

Unfortunately the drugs work, are relatively cheap and easily obtainable. The difficult bit is getting away with it, but, as Lance proved it is easy to pass the tests  If you know what you are doing  He is still the most tested athlete and was never 'done' for failing a test

Dope at your own peril

Edited: 03/05/2014 at 14:01
03/05/2014 at 14:31

Depends what means more to you doesn't it? The money or the reputation.

And we tend to forget about the athletes that were never that good even when they were doping. One wonders what they got out of it.

03/05/2014 at 14:46

Don't suppose we'll ever know. More in the past than now I would suspect.

XX1
03/05/2014 at 14:56

It isn't just doping though is it...  There are other ways of cheating 

XX1
03/05/2014 at 15:50
Some of the people who cheat probably gamble on the fact they may earn a fortune in a few years before they are caught and use clever accountants to put the money in places that cannot be touched by the authorities when they ask for it back.
03/05/2014 at 18:36

Some people are so insular that the only thing that matters to them really is money. They really don't care what others think of them. To them, others are just a means to an end and that end is money.

These sociopaths may well be successful in the financial sense, but long term they are losers. Sad gits destined to spend their miserable years alone counting their dosh, apart from the hangers on hoping for a slice of their action.

03/05/2014 at 19:05

Alas I think you're probably wrong.  Sociopaths tend to do fine on the whole. They did a good job coming up with the meek will inherit the earth bollocks to make people think that they'll be some divine justice though.

03/05/2014 at 20:07

It's not 'easy' to pass a test, it's easy to pass the tests they are using but the authorities have no intention of using the tests that they know work. Blood testing works, as cyclists are finding out. Cycling had no choice but to switch and start catching the cheats after the Armstrong farce. 

Athletics has used blood tests but probably doesn't want to catch all the cheats as stadiums will not fill and sponsorship will drop once world records stop. I'm a huge Bolt fan but the recent Jamaican test failures are worrying.

The womens 100m and 200m records were set in 1988, and since Flo Jo (aged just 38 when she died) no woman has run faster. 26 years and women are getting slower? I don't think so. 

 

03/05/2014 at 20:51

Actually the cycling authorities started to act when cyclists started dying mysteriously in the night. Their blood was so thick due to EPO use that they were dying of strokes and heart attacks. Some were getting up in the night to jump around and get the blood flowing. Hence the 50% limit for the number of red blood cells.

EPO exists naturally in the body and there was no test for natural/synthetic EPO for years so, happy days for the dopers. Only recently have the authorities developed a reliable test for EPO. But the dopers long ago moved on to blood transfusions. There is now a reliable test for blood transfusions... this was only developed and introduced in 2011.

I do not blame the elite competitors, they must have the mindset to do what is necessary to win. Whether they justify it to themselves by saying everyone else is doing it, who knows. But there seems to be a significant number of ex-athletes dying young.

 

04/05/2014 at 04:36

There’s a well-known survey in sports, known as the Goldman Dilemma. For it, a researcher, Bob Goldman, began asking elite athletes in the 1980s whether they would take a drug that guaranteed them a gold medal but would also kill them within five years. More than half of the athletes said yes. When he repeated the survey biannually for the next decade, the results were always the same. About half of the athletes were quite ready to take the bargain.

I found this.

Sport doesn't build character, it reveals it.

The thing I find unsettling is how many of these types who would take the risk go on to have jobs and careers that involve making decisions that affect others.

They should be banned from being able to do this like 'drink driving' offenses.

Unfortunately, all they need to do is get their sums right in school and they become your boss. Clever stupid idiots.

04/05/2014 at 05:36

If you have half a conscience you will realise that cheating is not worth it. Even if you do get away with it you will always be looking over your back and in fear that you may get caught out later. Hello Lance Armstrong, Ben Johnson and Marion Jones: stripped of titles and disgraced cheats.The victory from cheating  will always feel empty and hollow. You literally stole something that you did not deserve and feel guilty.

seren nos    pirate
04/05/2014 at 06:23

You see some people in local races only go to win or place........on days when the field is too strong they will DNS or if the race isn't going their way they will DNF......

to them the podium is all that counts........then if they were to have someone telling them that the others are all taking these drugs and the drugs aren't going to get them failed if they take them correctly.....a lot of these characters are so much in the winning mentality that they will take them

 they are the ones who would not stop to help someone in a race ....they want the podium so much..... 

04/05/2014 at 07:21

Spot on RicF.... But..... wind the clock back to the '80s and I am glad I was not offered the 'Goldman dilemma'. In those days I wanted to be an elite but was unable or unwilling to put in the work (not sure which). I have a different mindset now, like many I wish I could go back then with the mindset I have now. But that is a different story.

RoadWarrior; II think you have summed up Tyler Hamilton's book (a disgraced ex pro. cyclist) I was left with a profound feeling that this is exactly how he feels.

 

PG3
04/05/2014 at 07:50

I have a horrible suspicion that doping is the norm in so many sports and its justified by the 'everyone is doing it' thought. I always suspected Armstrong and I had people on forums going mental at me for suggesting it. Hmmm....

 

04/05/2014 at 08:07
PipG wrote (see)

I have a horrible suspicion that doping is the norm in so many sports and its justified by the 'everyone is doing it' thought. I always suspected Armstrong and I had people on forums going mental at me for suggesting it. Hmmm....

 

I was no fan of Lance after reading his book, 'It is not about the bike'. But I still think I really wanted him to be 'clean'. The idea that he was 'dirty' was unthinkable given his public image, and the hundreds of state of the art drugs tests he passed, and then there was his criticism of the dopers, and the $250,000 donation to pay for state of the art drug testing equipment.

04/05/2014 at 08:18
PipG wrote (see)

I have a horrible suspicion that doping is the norm in so many sports and its justified by the 'everyone is doing it' thought. I always suspected Armstrong and I had people on forums going mental at me for suggesting it. Hmmm....

 

But if you want some really depressing reading that makes you think that doping is normal in some sports have a look a this;

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

The author seems to be suggesting that the tennis authorities follow the, "Do not look under stones if you do not want to find what is under them" doctrine. It shows that the number of tennis players tested has halved in the last 12 months. More to the point, it is starting to use methods that were introduced in cycling more than 10years ago.

Very depressing reading

04/05/2014 at 08:45

The number of former athletes dying prematurely like Flo Jo is largely unknown. We only get to hear about the winners kopping it in this manner.

Its always assumed that athletes/sports people take drugs to win. Some do. Others take them to simply be competitive and in the case of cycling, merely to able to participate.

Who cares about the biker blown off the back of the 'peleton'? his choice is drugs or the 'broom wagon'.

 

04/05/2014 at 09:57

I think when you talk about 'cycling' you mean riding a three week grand tour. EPO was not only undetectable but also 'manna from heaven' to a doping grand tour cyclist. An un-doped riders red blood cell count reduces over the three weeks. The EPO or blood transfusion would allow the doped rider to maintain their red blood cell count throughout the three weeks.

This suggests that blood doping is (was?) a big problem in grand tours and not so much of a problem in one day or track cycling.

I do not think that athletes can or should prove they are clean; it is up to the authorities to do all they can to prevent it. While we have different testing regimes in different sports and a reluctance to name and shame for fear of negative publicity scaring away the sponsors the problem will hang around like a bad smell. 

Edited: 04/05/2014 at 10:02
04/05/2014 at 10:31
kittenkat wrote (see)

There will be people within the authorities who are covering up for these athletes and facilitating cheating.

 

Sorry to keep going on about cycling, but this is the story that I suspect still needs to be told about Lance Armstrong.

But how is this for spectacular naivety from 'the authorities'; this is a quote from Chris Kermode CEO of the ATP (Tennis)....

How big a danger is match-fixing, doping etc? Is our sport clean? "Absolutely. We’ve got to make sure that we are all over this. I think it’s a messaging issue, because I don’t see it as an issue. When you actually talk to players…some of those top guys, the rivalry at the World Tour Finals this year, they’re not playing for the money, they’re so naturally competitive".

Head well and truly in the sand.....

Edited: 04/05/2014 at 10:32
04/05/2014 at 11:30

Does anyone remember the runner who died during the Brighton Marathon last year? I remember reading that he had taken an, "Amphetamine like product" called 'Jack3D'. I lost a lot of sympathy for him because of this and I remember a lot of people on the forum made various derogatory statements.

I assumed this was a product bought in one of those dodgy looking 'legal high' shops but no. I have an advert on this Runners World site advertising a product called 'Jack3D' it is described as if it is a stimulant.... WTF?????

Edited: 04/05/2014 at 11:37
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