Chi Running DVD seems to show heel striking

I watched the Chi Running DVD and it seems to show the instructor (Danny Dreyer) heel striking

20 messages
18/07/2013 at 00:59

I watched the Chi Running DVD and it seems to show the instructor (Danny Dreyer) heel striking and throwing his foot infront of him.  Yet he shows in his youtube video how not to heel strike and why its bad.  It becomes more pronounced as he gets faster (which is strange because most heel strikers strike increasingly farther forward towards their toes as they speed up).    See here (running fast) :

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/730256/gallery/1.jpg?width=350

 

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/730256/gallery/2.jpg?width=350

 

 

Any thoughts ?

Edited: 18/07/2013 at 01:12
18/07/2013 at 02:18

Why should the guy care? he's already got your money, which is what all these fancy ideas are about. 

18/07/2013 at 09:17

Oldest trick in the book. Gives something a mystical oriental sounding name to make it sound like you are being let into some ancient running secret.

cougie    pirate
18/07/2013 at 11:34
Anyone else read that as Danny Dyer ?
18/07/2013 at 12:37

 

I'm not after fancy ideas just a way to run that doesn't injure me.

18/07/2013 at 13:00
What injuries have you got?
Do you know exactly what is causing them?
18/07/2013 at 13:24
cougie wrote (see)
Anyone else read that as Danny Dyer ?

Land on ya fackin toes you facking mug, innit?

18/07/2013 at 13:41

Britain's Hardest Heel Strikers!

18/07/2013 at 14:18

 

Millsy1977 wrote (see)
What injuries have you got? 
Do you know exactly what is causing them?

I have had IT band probelms at my knee, calf strain (both) and currently an irritation in my ankle that feels like burning (its going away now, physio says it is just irritation from the way I was running).  Its not the distance as I am doing a run walk run program to 5k (NHS couch to 5k).

Having watched the Chi running and POSE DVDs I do the 2 things they say are wrong.

1) I extend my foot infront of me = overstriding

2) I land on my heel

The chi running looks good but its weird that he says don't land on your heel but then in slow mo thats what it seems he is doing when he runs fast (slow he lands midfoot).  The POSE running guy proposes a forefoot strike and he runs exactly the way he teaches.  However it looks like you need calves of steel to forefoot strike.

 

Edited: 18/07/2013 at 14:25
18/07/2013 at 14:29

Dont worry about where your feet are striking too much - youll end up forcing them into unnatural positions.

best thing to focus on is your cadence - try and keep a cadence of 180+ and you will naturally then stop overstriding.

The other thing with IT bands can be if your pelvis rocks about - squats and side lying abductors can help.

18/07/2013 at 15:09
Millsy1977 wrote (see)
What injuries have you got?
Do you know exactly what is causing them?

 

JMopper wrote (see)

Dont worry about where your feet are striking too much - youll end up forcing them into unnatural positions.

best thing to focus on is your cadence - try and keep a cadence of 180+ and you will naturally then stop overstriding.

The other thing with IT bands can be if your pelvis rocks about - squats and side lying abductors can help.

Thanks JMopper.  I have been doing the clamshell (is that the same as side lying abductors?) and squats now while my ankle calms down.

 

18/07/2013 at 15:12

yep theyre pretty similar. Just straighten your leg out to do the leg raise - its probably just a little bit harder as your fully lifting your leg so perhaps more effective. Either is good though.

18/07/2013 at 16:26
JMopper wrote (see)

Dont worry about where your feet are striking too much - youll end up forcing them into unnatural positions.

best thing to focus on is your cadence - try and keep a cadence of 180+ and you will naturally then stop overstriding.

The other thing with IT bands can be if your pelvis rocks about - squats and side lying abductors can help.

This mainly.  Also, I don't know if in the video the guy's heel striking is more acute than is suggested by those stills, but I did read an article somewhere (CNBA trying to find it) that compared foot strikes of a number of elite runners on the track, and it appeared in a lot of cases as though the heel was just about making contact with the ground before the runner effectively landed with near enough a midfoot strike. It's difficult to tell from the first still above, but it doesn't look like the guy's foot is that far ahead of his body (and it's blurry, so difficult to tell whether he's actually made any impact yet.)  Fast forward a single frame and it may suggest that he's midfoot striking with no overstriding whatsoever.

18/07/2013 at 16:52
PhilPub wrote (see)
 Also, I don't know if in the video the guy's heel striking is more acute than is suggested by those stills, but I did read an article somewhere (CNBA trying to find it) that compared foot strikes of a number of elite runners on the track, and it appeared in a lot of cases as though the heel was just about making contact with the ground before the runner effectively landed with near enough a midfoot strike. It's difficult to tell from the first still above, but it doesn't look like the guy's foot is that far ahead of his body (and it's blurry, so difficult to tell whether he's actually made any impact yet.)  Fast forward a single frame and it may suggest that he's midfoot striking with no overstriding whatsoever.

 found a clip very low res but it is at least a video

the demo of gears starts 1 min into the video and the heel seems to become more prominent as the video progresses. Have a look and see what you can make of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgueZ4FcsbQ



Edited: 18/07/2013 at 16:52
18/07/2013 at 17:02

Yes, still difficult to tell exactly what's going on at the moment of impact, but IMO the main thing to note is that at the moment of foot-strike, the guy's foot is directly in line with his head and not in front of it.  So he's avoiding the injury risk that would be associated with the force that results from having to still propel yourself forward when your heel has already hit the ground.

 

19/08/2013 at 17:35

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who recommends that you run as you run without overstriding. I have said before that on more than one occasion runners have been checked after about 15 miles in a marathon and around 75% are heel striking just like that Chi running demonstrator. These surveys include world class professional runners. There is absolutely nothing wrong with heel striking as long as you are not overstriding. www.oldmarathonrunner.co.uk

19/08/2013 at 17:54

Indeed. look at his knee. It's slightly bent. He's not coming down hard on his heel with a straight leg. Which is what heel striking is. Landing on your heel is not heel striking.

20/08/2013 at 18:19

Landing on your heel is heel striking. However, not all heel striking is equal. Landing as close to under your hips should be the aim -and when you do that you are very very likely to land on your forefoot (stand in place, lift your foot up and drop it straight down with a relaxed ankle -you just landed on your forefoot without trying). I think those that land close to under the hips but still touch with the heel first is probably just the heel wedge getting in the way.

 

No question, Danny Dryer is heel striking and overstriding, and that's probably because he advocates lengthening the stride out behind you using pelvic rotation. This is an error because a trailing leg acts as a coounter balance to the lean and encourages the swing leg to overstride.

Just so you know, I used to practice Chi running for a few years until I studied Pose. Now a level 1 Pose Coach.

20/08/2013 at 20:04

Not a lot to add to this debate, but this image always makes me smile:

http://s4.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/693152/gallery/am.jpg?width=350

 I've moved away from  the mongolian runners style to landing below the hips with an ave cadence of 186. At the end of the day I'd still be eating the dust he throws up with each heel strike

24/08/2013 at 01:34

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