Chirunning workshop Leeds June 6th

anyone fancy coming with me?

21 to 40 of 62 messages
19/05/2010 at 17:43
Oh never mind... I'll go on my own lol.
19/05/2010 at 17:52

YorksLass

Yes, I would say £90 to improve your running form and body awareness is money better spent than buying fancy clumpy cushioned/support shoes every 350 miles in the false belief that they prevent injury or reduce impact forces etc (actually there is evidence now that shows the more cushioned a shoe is, the harder the impact forces are!). But that's another topic for discussion.

I'm not sure about the reduced injury claims of Chi and Pose as it does seem anecdotal (although there is evidence that Pose reduces impact on knees (but increases it on Achilles!)), but better running form does mean more relaxed and efficient running.

19/05/2010 at 18:01

Thousands if not millions more people run the old fashioned way than those who have switched to forefoot, Chi, Pose etc.

I'm willing to bet that the same percentage of people end up getting injured doing both (but possibly different kinds of injuries).

Given the much bigger number people who run the 'old' way, you are going to hear about a much bigger number of those people getting injured - doesn't mean they're more likely to though.

There have been NO proper studies published comparing injury rates with running with the different methods.

Doing the course can't hurt but unless they make you think that if you run any other way but their, you're going to hell...

And Hywel, have the rocks worked for you? If buy two, will I twice as less likely to be bothered by dinosaurs or should one suffice - you can't be too careful where dinosaurs are concerned, have you seen the SIZE of the buggers on tv !!!

19/05/2010 at 18:07

Thousands if not millions more people run the old fashioned way than those who have switched to forefoot, Chi, Pose etc.

Only since the introduction of modern running shoes in the mid 70s! Try running with a heel strike barefoot, or in slippers...OUCH! Regardless of injury claims on this issue, landing on your heel means landing IN FRONT of your centre of gravity, which means you're breaking with every step, which also means it's not very efficient!

19/05/2010 at 18:10
@Waylon Smithers - yes, my rocks do work.  There are absolutely no dinosaurs around here.  Yes, those dinosaurs are huge - really, REALL big, and some of them are fast, but they don't use Chi Running.
19/05/2010 at 18:26
...since the introduction of modern running shoes in the mid 70s running has become the mass participation sport it is today.

I couldn't care less how people run.

I recently attended a lecture by Prof. Daniel Lieberman, the Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University and one of the champions of the barefoot running brigade. Point number one in his final summation, was (in capital letters) - If it ain't broke, don't fix it - which was nice to hear.
19/05/2010 at 19:13

WS

Yeah, couldn't agree more, to be honest, but Yorkslass feels she is broken.

19/05/2010 at 21:11
I don't like any running 'method' that makes itself out to be the holy grail of techniques.

Yorkslass - I can pretty much guarantee that you will 'benefit' from the Chi technique and is probably worth trying...

... again something that Lieberman said in his lecture... "if you continually suffer from the same overuse injuries, if you change the way you run, you will alter the areas of the body that are being exposed to the most / worst forces, so it follows that you will change your injury patterns", i.e. your old injuries shouldn't re-occur (but new ones might!) so, initially at least, you'll feel better for it.

Hope you do.
19/05/2010 at 21:21

Yorkslass,

If you want to go, you bloomin well go. It's your money and your choice and sod certain miserable buggers on this thread who can't make a point without being rude!!

Hope youenjoy the course

19/05/2010 at 21:29

Yorkslass,

 I'm interested. Have you booked in yet?

19/05/2010 at 21:46
Ooo! A proper reply lol! I haven't booked yet, no! x
Farnie    pirate
19/05/2010 at 22:04

Even if you don't totally buy in to any specific running technique, you will almost certainly benefit from having someone watch you run and you then watch it back too. 

HJ, I have no interest in your race times, I asked about your coaching experience.

19/05/2010 at 22:08

Good for you Yorkslass, hope the course works for you, a coach there in person helps loads as there can be a huge gap between what you think you do & what you actually do. 

 Am a wannabe Poser myself, was a bit nervous before spending money for my first pose coaching, now can see its one of the best things I've ever done.

There is not one single scientific paper putting forward a benefit of cushioned trainers, so the naysayers must have good technique as theyre all running in cheap plimsols and not wasting money on something without any solid proof  

19/05/2010 at 22:17

@Farnie - you said this:

*stands back to listen to HJ's coaching/running credentials*

So, you asked for "coaching or running credentials", and I gave them.  Keep up, especially with your own posts.

19/05/2010 at 22:25
Not one single scientific paper, eh?  How about Iain Hunter, Ph.D's paper "Ground reaction force differences between running shoes, racing flats, and distance spikes in runners", that was published in Journal of Sports Science and Medicine earlier this year?  When asked "So the basic finding is that training shoes DO reduce forces for rear foot strikers, right?" by some running publication (Runners' World) his response was, "That is correct.".
19/05/2010 at 22:47

Well, yeah, comparing one bad heel strike with another. But compare it with a fullfoot ot forefoot strike pattern and I think the findings show these have less impact than heel strike (not to mention the braking effect caused by heel strike).

Generally, I think a 'one size fits all' is flawed and 'if it aint broke...' holds true, but to ignore your technique and assume what feels right naturally must be the best way is stupid.

19/05/2010 at 22:50
Hywel Jenkins wrote (see

Not one single scientific paper, eh?  How about Iain Hunter, Ph.D's paper "Ground reaction force differences between running shoes, racing flats, and distance spikes in runners", that was published in Journal of Sports Science and Medicine earlier this year?  When asked "So the basic finding is that training shoes DO reduce forces for rear foot strikers, right?" by some running publication (Runners' World) his response was, "That is correct.".


Well obviously if you're running with bad form and heel-striking then a great big cushion on your heel is going to reduce the impact force, but that's beside the point - the shoes allow and encourage bad form. Running with good form as taught by Chirunning and others uses a fore/mid-foot strike which has lower impact forces than any heel-strike could hope to have.

 ^Guess dibbers beat me to it

Edited: 19/05/2010 at 22:51
Farnie    pirate
19/05/2010 at 22:54
Hywel Jenkins wrote (see)
.  No injuries, apart from sore nipples and some mild chafing caused by my Camelback.

Hywel Jenkins wrote (see)

@Farnie - "stands back to listen to HJ's coaching/running credentials"  Brilliant!  What's that got to do with it?  All I've said that the whole Chi Running things is based on grounds short of evidence - anyone, runner or not, with a scientific mind could come to the same conclusion: show the evidence and I'll believe it.

My running credentials are probably better than yours.  I started running 30 years ago, then did nothing between leaving school and three years ago, when I did my first marathon in 3h46 (two years ago, when I was 38) - while carrying my own water around the hilly Herefordshire country side.  1m PB is 5'27.  5km is 18'1. 10km is 36'54.  No injuries, apart from sore nipples and some mild chafing caused by my Camelback.


Hywel Jenkins wrote (see)

 Though baffled by whatever's causing the pain - she bent me, stretched me, and folded me in all indescribable shapes, but couldn't trigger any pain response at all - she sent me a way with some exercises to stretch out the problem area.

After five days I'm already back running, though just on a treadmill at the moment, and don't get anywhere near as much discomfort as I was last week.  I appreciate that you could put that down to my body recovering anyway.

I would try keeping up with your own maybe?
19/05/2010 at 23:01

So let me get this right, Yorkslass comes on here to ask if anyone else is interested in attending a running technique coaching session and she gets a load of abuse and bullshit running politics?

HJ - you need to remember that if someone is interested in improving their running by whatever means they feel the need to try, then that can only be a good thing. Have you ever tried anything relating to running to make you better or faster or whatever? and don't come back on and say "only if it's proven..." who cares. You also mention that you've never had any injuries either, so it's clear you'll never understand someone who suffers injuries regular and is trying new techniques in a bid to be more efficient and reduce the risk of these injuries occurring.

As for all the studies and research and wu and all that other crap, she didn't ask for any of that, or any advice either. She just wanted to know if anyone is interested and you're clearly not so why bother replying at all.

Kryten    pirate
19/05/2010 at 23:02

For what its worth, I used to be a heavy heal striker and always got painful knees but I used the methods in a Chi running book to change to mid-foot striking and I have since had about 7 years of running with no knee problems.

I think any method that teaches you to improve your running form is worthwhile, including chi running, pose etc.

Knowing that you should land with your foot under your centre of gravity with your knee slightly bent, or whatever, is all very well but it doesn't  necessarily mean that you will be able to do it. The thing I liked about the Chi running book was that it gave you some exercises to do that taught you to improve your form.

As I say Pose or some other method or a good old fashioned running coach are no doubt just as useful but Chi running can work so don't knock it until you have tried it.

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