"Fast" marathon on 3 runs per week
Can you improve on fewer sessions per week? Here's what you thought
30/05/2007 at 10:02
Hello,
I ran 3 hrs 8 mins at this year’s FLM, having averaged 60 miles per week (6 runs/wk)over a 5 month training period (peak mileage 72 miles). I’d like to experiment with different training regimes and am particularly keen to hear from anyone who has run close to or under 3 hours for the marathon on 3 runs a week.
I’m aware of the Furman schedules and wonder what level of success people have had with this type of “minimalist” approach to training. I’m particularly interested in hearing:
a. what type of runs were done and at what pace
b. the duration of the training
c. any cross training sessions that were included
d. most importantly did you enjoy the training or was the intensity of each session so high that you dreaded each run
Thanks
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 15:25
i have a gym buddy whose not a forumite but tells me he did his best marathon in 2 hours 38 on a three day a week running programme. quality over quantity apparently. he also did two/three days cross training in the form of cycling/spinning. i'll get him to give me more details if you're interested.
30/05/2007 at 15:48
Hi b-oing
Any information you can get would be much appreciated
Thanks
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 16:03
All my jealous running friends know me as an absolute minimalist trainer, but not a 3-hour marathoner, unfortunately, but that's just cos I'm not fast enuf...yet!
I ran lifetime pbs last year at marathon, and half, and was only a minutes outside my 10k pb of 10 year standing.I'm 51.
I guess the majority of it came from a job change that had me lumping heavy cartons, upto 53Kg (ikea boxes) into and out of a van, and up sometimes 4 flights of stairs, and I'm only 5'10" and 73Kg.. then building the stuff quickly, which got the heart rate going. I worked long hours, sometimes 12 a day, and ate little, so I lost about 3kg. My legs and upper body became solid muscle, and I usually managed the time to run once or maybe twice a week.
At MOST it was 3 times..
I improved a sickening marathon time at Rotterdam in March of 4h01m, down to 3h43m in the October at Amsterdam.
30/05/2007 at 16:12
Hey Ged56
That's impressive going.
Sounds like you're job is giving you a lot of opportunity to cross-train!
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 16:21
On a slower scale than the times quoted, but I did a 22 min pb at the Lochaber Marathon finishing in 4:28. When I looked back at my training log I was suprised to see that my January to March total mileages were 78, 76 and 77 miles (less than 18 mpw!!!)on no more than 3 runs a week and maybe a 3 hour bike sess every fortnight or so.
30/05/2007 at 16:27
Hi fat face
Well done on your massive PB. How did the mileage for Lochaber compare to your mileage for your previous marathon(s).
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 16:32
Probably less mileage but I started to do longer runs earlier on in the schedule.
30/05/2007 at 16:48
So far some useful information.
I'm still waiting to hear from people who have run the marathon in under 3 hours (or close to 3 hours) on just 3 runs a week. Anyone out there who's done this, or is it pie in the sky?
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 17:03
I did 3:10 on three to four quality sessions per week, plus the odd recovery run...... so, not quite the three hours on three sessions BUT my maximum mileage for this was 55, and I was probably averaging 40 miles per week - so considerably less mileage than you for approximately the same result.
But, that being said, my own tactic for cracking three hours is to up the mileage while trying to maintain the quality, so we're heading in diferent directions!
I'd be interested in hearing how you get on with this approach though. In theory the increased rest you'll get means you should be more able to work hard/effectively in your three sessions, so should get more out of it, but I suspect there will be a lot of other factors that will also come into play.
Good Luck!
30/05/2007 at 17:20
Hi (not so) Slowboy
That's useful, thanks.
What were your "quality" sessions and did you suffer any burnout/over-training from running at a high intensity for most of your runs?
I guess I'm trying to find out for how long (i.e how many weeks) it's possible to stick to a schedule where every run is "fast"/intensive before your body screams out ENOUGH!
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 17:25
I've now moved away, and changed my job, and the half marathon I ran, to the day a year later, was 3 mins slower, at 1.43, from the sub 1.40 last year, on virtually 'b*gg*r all' mileage.. although I ran a hilly 16 miler 3 weeks before the race. My MAXimum miles are 30pw, in peak training, usually about 10-15mpw, with maybe a 10 mile bike ride, once a fortnight. All runs, long or short, are run at the hardest pace I can manage on the day.
My recommendations are to try a comfortable 30 miler, 3 weeks before the race, and taper Sharply, max 15mpw after that, with at least an hour stretch session per week, and an hour stretch the night before the race.
I usually recover within an hour after the race..my friends say I obviously don't run hard enuf!!
30/05/2007 at 17:27
the key to my training is the recovery times between each..loads of it...
30/05/2007 at 19:12
Interesting thread.
I guess that with only 3 sessions a week you'd be runing every other day, looking at a long slow run with a couple of tempo runs (of an hour each).
Your recovery/easy days would be the no-running days.
However, the above is only an educated guess.
Like yourself, I'd like to hear from someone who has done it!
30/05/2007 at 20:22
I train with someone who has averaged well under 3 times per week in the last couple of years, though due to injury rather than choice. Earlier this year he managed a 31:50 10km, but I'd imagine he currently lacks the endurance to convert it to a super-quick marathon. At his best, around 10 years ago he did manage 62mins for a HM and a 2:14 whilst despite less than 100km per week.
I guess he chose his parents wisely; I needed to step up to 5 - 6 times per day to break 3 hrs, then daily training to break 2:45, although perhaps I'd have got there anyway on 3 times per weke - just at a slower rate of improvement?
30/05/2007 at 21:04
SG,
Your suggestion of two 1-hour tempo sessions and a long run sounds reasonable. But as you say, it's guess work.
Would it be better to do a hill session or an interval session instead of one of the tempo sessions??? I wish I knew. And how long could someone maintain that type of training before the high level of intensity got to them??? (You won't have time to stop and smell the roses!!) And how much of a base would you need before you embarked on this type high intensity training?
JEJ
Thanks for the information.
31:50 for a 10K off 3 runs a week is mighty impressive!!!! As you say, your training partner must have excellent innate running ability.
The question, which is still unanswered, is - has someone converted this limited amount of running into a sub 3 hour (or close to that mark) marathon? And if so, what type of runs have they done?
Is there anyone out there who has done this? I'd love to hear from you.
ITFAC
30/05/2007 at 21:07
My long run has always been Friday night, saturday, or sunday, with at least 2 days rest following, then the third session could be the day after, as long as the weather was suitable (I'm a fine weather runner) or the day after,, either speed session/reps or hardpace 6/8/10 miler.
30/05/2007 at 22:57
A long time ago, I ran a 2:50 marathon off 3/4 runs a week (I guess I was probably averaging 25 miles a week), and then one 20 mile run the week before.
But I was never very scientific about my running. I just ran hard a couple of times a week. And made sure that I was carrying as little weight as possible (very important, I tend to think - though obviously there is a point at which one begins to lose muscle).
I think I managed the marathon because I'd got relatively quick at 10km on this regime (just sub-34). So I probably wasn't building up much lactic acid when running at marathon pace, so was able to keep going.
But the last three miles were hell.
Ironically, the only other time I ran a marathon, I trained "properly", and then crashed and burned during the race (though there was an injury issue).
30/05/2007 at 23:06
Hi There,
I did 2:59 last Autumn and again at FLM this year on 4 sessions a week - so not quite down to 3.
Basically, never went over 45 miles in a week and did 2 quality sessions, a long session and a tempo session. Did do one or two alternatives as well though - ie a swim and or a gym session for core strength - but that could be done at home with minimal equipment. (the core strength, not the swim!)
31/05/2007 at 07:50
ITFAC,
Well, one long slow run and one tempo run a week would be obvious. For a marathon the tempo run has much more benefit than an interval session (running at or near Lactic Threshold to improve your LT pace will have more benefit than running intervals and raising your VO2 max).
A hill session would definitely add stamina but more than a tempo run? I suppose it would depend upon your pace and the actual quality of the hills. Alternating between hills and a tempo run would give the best of both worlds.
Looks like in answer to your question - a sub 3 (or near to sub 3) must be very difficult (if not impossible) off only 3 training (running) sessions a week.
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