Fell-Running

'Emergency Clothing'/General Questions

18 messages
04/02/2010 at 14:49

 Some 'background' first, I hope that's okay?;

Having run a few of the (Penistone Footpath Runners organised) 'Trunces' last year, I fancied something a bit harder....

 http://undeadmonkey.org.uk/trunce/

Prior to that (after a return to competition), I rode the (Bingley Harriers organised) 'Harriers verses Cyclists' twice (2007/2008)

http://www.bingleyharriers.co.uk/html/h_v_cyclists/hvc.htm

But, in 2009, I ran the 'H v C', & got a faster time too (by 6 minutes), I must admit

 So, with those in mind, I considered, & entered the 'Stanbury Splash

http://woodentops.org.uk/index.php?topic=stanbury&subtopic=home

 It was a heck of an introduction to the sport, & I'll admit I suffered on some of the hills (how the heck the grass doesn't slide off them, I have no idea!?)

I did finish it, & in a (I presume) reasonable time/position for a novice, recording 154th/298 @ 1.03:09

 I'll admit, I had thought that I could do the 7 miles in about 55 minutes, but the steepness of the climbs got to me (by comparison, my 'PB' on the road for a 10K is 44:16)

On the drive home from Haworth, I considered the fact that I did actually enjoy it, & was there any others coming up

Now, to 'the point'

(sorry for 'waffling')

After, erm......., enjoying the 'Stanbury', I looked on the 'Fell Runners Association' website for another event, & found this mentioned somewhere;

The Ilkley Harriers 'Ilkley Moor Fell-Race'

http://www.ilkleyharriers.org.uk/imr/imrindex.html

After looking at the catagorisation of it (AS), & the distance/climbing (5miles/1260), I thought I might give it a go, having walked around the Moor over the years.

The 'Experience Required' notation, & the clothing requirements made me curious enough to e-mail the Club.

It's not deemed suitable for a beginner, but that's a 'Catch 22 Question'

1. You can't run the event because you don't have the experience!
2. You can't get the experience without running the event! (or ones like it)

Even more to the point...............

What constitutes the clothing (wind/waterproof jacket/trousers), are items like the Ron Hill (orJJB) nylon jackets suitable, & if available, matching trousers??
Or, do I pack my 'hi-viz' (motorway worker type) trousers, & unlined 'bomber jacket' in a little pack??



I've got the day-off organised, so it'll be a case of 'deciding on the day' (or perhaps even just going up & watching it?)

04/02/2010 at 15:18

That took a while to read!

Welcome to fell running - it's great fun and you'll be hooked in no time!

For the race, I'd have said that Ilkley's a great starter. Cat A races are steep and often rough, and Ilkley Moor in Feb is pretty bleak BUT if you're hill-fit and capable of getting yourself to safety using map and compass in poor conditions, I'd say you should give it a bash.

For the kit, the stipulation is windproof full body cover. This means a pertex or similar top, waterproof trousers, hat and gloves. Some races require waterproof stuff. This is generally advertised in advance but if conditions are really bad on the day, the requirement might be upgraded from wind- to waterproof. If you have them, it's safest to chuck both in the car.

You'll then stuff all this in a bumbag or camelbak type thing and run with it. In all the races I've ever done, I've only used my w/p trousers once but it's good to know they're there.

See you there!

04/02/2010 at 15:30

Thanks for that 'Desk'

I'll have to go & talk to the Wakefield branch of 'Up & Running', to see what water/wind-proof stuff they have then

I've got the shoes, I bought a pair after slithering all over the place at my first 'Trunce' in 'road-shoes' (Mizuno 'Wave Harrier 2')

 If I do get there, & enter, I'll undoubtedly be the only one wearing this top (be it in a long, or short-sleeve variety)

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/442128/Gallery/Cycling._Cyclo-Cross._2009._Thornes_Park._5.jpeg

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/442128/Gallery/Running._Competition._2009._Trunce._Race_9._2_0.jpg

Running the race is also a great excuse for calling in Otley on the way back, & gorging myself at the 'Wharfeview Cafe'

Edited: 04/02/2010 at 15:31
05/02/2010 at 10:40

I'd have a look at the websites of LakesRunner and Pete Bland Sports - much more tailored to fell and usually cheaper.

For windproof I have a montane featherlite (dirt cheap and tiny); for waterproof it's a Gore Tex Paclite (expensive but awesome). I have a scruffy old pair of w/p trousers that I used to use for sledging.

I have the original Wave Harriers for the easier terrain (should be fine for Ilkley). When you get into it you might want some more aggressive shoes for the rougher ground.

05/02/2010 at 11:03

Richard

Desk Jockey is giving good advice there.  i went to watch the Tigger Tor on Sunday (not running those distances at the moment as post op recovery at the moment).  This was a 9m fell run with 2,200ft of ascent over open moors (Higger Tor and Burbage) and there were lots of people for whom this was their first fell run.  Just ensure you have body cover, map and compass - though it is questionable whether some even had this on Sunday!!!

05/02/2010 at 21:45
PJAZ wrote (see)

Richard

Desk This was a 9m fell run with 2,200ft of ascent over open moors (Higger Tor and Burbage) and there were lots of people for whom this was their first fell run.  Just ensure you have body cover, map and compass - though it is questionable whether some even had this on Sunday!!!


In a way, I'm partially surprised that this is an issue on Ilkley Moor, given its highly public (well-trodden) status, & nearness to the town*

The 'Stanbury Splash' covered far more isolated terrain, & there was no question of wind/water-proof clothing at that event

 I've looked at the Montane jackets on E-Bay, & might try a local(ish)  'family run' sports-shop that does mountain equipment & hill-climbing gear (I live close to 'Xscape' as well, but I doubt I'll find anything suitable in there?)

* Yes, I know they're required items in case of  the weather closing in unexpectedly, or an injury & having to 'sit-tight'/lay there, until rescued/assisted off the moor-side

Edited: 05/02/2010 at 21:46
06/02/2010 at 19:17
desk jockey wrote (see)

For the kit, the stipulation is windproof full body cover. This means a pertex or similar top, waterproof trousers, hat and gloves. Some races require waterproof stuff. This is generally advertised in advance but if conditions are really bad on the day, the requirement might be upgraded from wind- to waterproof. If you have them, it's safest to chuck both in the car.

I think I'll give it a go, just so long as there's not so much snow that I can't get to Ilkleya

After all, it'll be my fault if I trip up, or go 'Base Over Apex' (or a similar less polite phrase)


I've been to the local 'Go Outdoors' (see, typical parsimonious Yorkshireman!) this afternoon, & bought a 'Pertex' type material top, waterproof trousers, a survival bag & whistle (just in case......., but the bag can always stop in the Landie)

 Plus, a new 1/4 zip fleece for around the house, & I've only spent £42.00

06/02/2010 at 19:35

I've just done tough guy 2010 and it's really opened my eyes to how much more fun it is to be tackling hard terrain like steep hills, endless mud and battling against the harsh conditions!

I've been thinking about trying to get into Fell/Trail running although dont really know where to start, so this thread has been quite useful so far. Do you really need to have all that gear with you all the time, it sounds like a fair amount to run with or do people buy lightweight and vaccume pack it all?

Are fell/trail runs well marked out or do you just have to get to a certain point or checkpoints? With a lack of people in the events im sure over a fairly short distance people could become separated and you could be left on your own?

I have a lot of outdoor gear but i would never dream of running in it, i didnt even wear long sleeves or tights for tough guy despite the snow and ice, just standard thin running shorts and tshirt... although that may explain the uncontrolable shaking i had at the end

06/02/2010 at 21:20
desk jockey wrote (see)

for the easier terrain (should be fine for Ilkley). When you get into it you might want some more aggressive shoes for the rougher ground.

Wakefield 'Go Outdoors' has the Inov-8 'Mud-Claw 330' at £40.00 at the moment! (I can't comment on other stores/availabilty of sizes)

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/inov8-mudclaw-330-o-p95409

Boyddie wrote (see)

I've been thinking about trying to get into Fell/Trail running although dont really know where to start, so this thread has been quite useful so far. Do you really need to have all that gear with you all the time, it sounds like a fair amount to run with or do people buy lightweight and vaccume pack it all?

Are fell/trail runs well marked out or do you just have to get to a certain point or checkpoints? With a lack of people in the events im sure over a fairly short distance people could become separated and you could be left on your own?

I have a lot of outdoor gear but i would never dream of running in it, i didnt even wear long sleeves or tights for tough guy despite the snow and ice, just standard thin running shorts and tshirt... although that may explain the uncontrolable shaking i had at the end


The wind/water-proof clothing's a safety consideration, in case you get injured & have to await rescue.


I'd hazard a guess that there are certain waymarkers/flags, or just follow everyone else (as I did at 'Stanbury')

 'Stanbury' saw plenty in just Club-vests & shorts, I had a long-sleeve (cycling club) top on, t-shirt, woolly hat, woolly gloves, but did wear shorts; and I was just about comfortable.

(you can spot my yellow sleeves, I'm hiding behind runner '191')

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/442128/Gallery/Running._Competition._2010._Stanbury_Splash._1.jpg

Personally speaking, wouldn't want to run such an event before (say...) April in a vest

07/02/2010 at 19:55

 Take a look at the Fell Runners Association's website:

http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/

Plenty of advice on kit choice and beginner friendly races.

Basic kit requirements are full windproof body cover, map, compass, whistle and emergency food.  All of these fit easily into a bum bag.  As already stated on this thread, you should always have full waterproof kit available (fully waterproof jacket with hood and trousers, all with taped seams) as organisers may upgrade the kit requirements for bad weather. Again, lightweight kit will all fit in a bum bag or rucsac

Courses are rarely flagged or marked once on to the open hillside, with competitors navigating between mandatory checkpoints with marshalls ticking off numbers to keep track. Being able to use a map and compass is pretty much essential - whilst its often possible to follow the runner in front, this is by no means certain - they might be lost too, and it is easy to become seperated and disorientated in the bad weather that is part and parcel of running in the hills.

A key ethos of fell-running is being self sufficient and not relying on anyone else to get you out of trouble, possibly putting them at risk too. The kit is not just for injuries eitehr. If you get misplaced or have to slow down for whatever reason its easy to get cold quickly, even in the summer, and hypothermia can lead to all sorts of problems fairly quickly.

I'm not trying to put you off - it's a fantastic sport  - but it does need to be undertaken with the respect it deserves.  Best way to start is to get out in the hills with an experienced fell runner  (easily done as they're a friendly bunch!) and learn some basic navigation and hill sense, and start off with some of the shorter races.

08/02/2010 at 10:50

Loads of good advice here, and thanks for the tip about the Mudclaws! Might have to pay them a visit.

Have a play on the FRA forum for lots of tips, and there are some good beginners' races out there - the Woodentops' races from Haworth (www.woodentops.org.uk) are all very popular with beginners. Have a look at the BOFRA races (google it) for some very short, sharp introductions to fell racing. No chance of getting lost here!

Also have a look on the FRA calendar - they're publishing details of all races until June on the FRA site, but that's no excuse not to join - only £12 per year and you'll get a lovely shiny magazine every quarter and a calendar yearbook.

As someone else said, most races are marked near the start/ end, but the middle bits are generally checkpoints giving route choices. Choices are often obvious and there are often others to follow, but not always (and defnintely not in the fog!)

08/02/2010 at 11:01

Oh, and comparisons with 'Tough Guy' aren't always relevant. Yes, TG is cold and there's some water, but it's in a valley bottom with emergency people everywhere.

Fell races can be run when it's -6, snowy, with a 60mph wind across the moors. Vest and shorts ain't always gonna cut it!

08/02/2010 at 19:44
desk jockey wrote (see)
Fell races can be run when it's -6, snowy, with a 60mph wind across the moors. Vest and shorts ain't always gonna cut it!

And that's just the summer races!
09/02/2010 at 12:04
bus boy wrote (see)
desk jockey wrote (see)
Fell races can be run when it's -6, snowy, with a 60mph wind across the moors. Vest and shorts ain't always gonna cut it!

And that's just the summer races!


You bet me to it (sounding even more like Cyclo-Cross now)

 I've just got to buy an appropriately sized  'bum-bag' now, unless I can find a (sobre coloured) one in my daughters wardrobe.

09/02/2010 at 14:37
Boyddie wrote (see)

Are fell/trail runs well marked out or do you just have to get to a certain point or checkpoints? With a lack of people in the events im sure over a fairly short distance people could become separated and you could be left on your own?

True, you could get lost but that all part of the reason to do it - to feel great after successfully managing the course.  The level of marking will vary, and most will be good but some are specifically a challenge and it up to you how you get from point A to Point B.

I've done a Salomon Turbo X (a lot less extreme that TG, but vthe Sheffield event was ery wet, muddy and hilly) and you feel great after finishing, but even though its more running based than a TG it's still not like a proper full run - you are never that far from a marshall/safety etc.  On some of my lone fell training runs you can be miles away from the road and other people and thats the risk/reward element.

bus boy wrote (see)
desk jockey wrote (see)
Fell races can be run when it's -6, snowy, with a 60mph wind across the moors. Vest and shorts ain't always gonna cut it!

And that's just the summer races!

LOL - very true.

I also find fell races to be much friendlier events than road races - I think road races are more burdened by H&S, the police and road closure issues and time etc than fell runs - which is a shame.

09/02/2010 at 15:45
Richard Thackeray 2 wrote (see)

 I've just got to buy an appropriately sized  'bum-bag' now, unless I can find a (sobre coloured) one in my daughters wardrobe.


They're all the same colour after you've fallen over in the peat a few times!
09/02/2010 at 19:52
I also find fell races to be much friendlier events than road races - I think road races are more burdened by H&S, the police and road closure issues and time etc than fell runs - which is a shame.

Friendlier and much cheaper to! Often less than a fiver with a big piece of cake at the end
09/02/2010 at 20:16

Fellrunners are the BEST people but they often know each other so its best to go with a club member or a mate who has done the event before. The difference between Fellrunning and road events is that for Fellrunners its 'mountains first, running later' on the road its often enter the event and worry about capability later. You must be able to navigate safely and have the right kit for the event and know how to use it. Its obvious but, don't even think about relying on a mobile on the fells cos they never work when you want them!

Here endeth my first post.  


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