Give me facts, or nothing at all

21 to 40 of 47 messages
22/10/2002 at 22:50
SS,

I understand your point of view, but you seem to be just as distrustful of modern drugs. As for the effects of these drugs - just look at how, for example, infant/child mortality has dramatically changed. Ever needed anti-biotics? I have - and if I hadn't had them, I would have died last year. Personally, I'd rather have my doctor prescribe an exact dose of, for example, digitalis than go out and pick some foxglove and hope that it might work.

Sure, we can explore some of the 'folklore' to see if it works, but scientifically, not through a blind sense of false nostalgia.

Hild
22/10/2002 at 22:51
As a chiropractic student I feel I must comment on the web site that Dan Hughes mentioned in starting this thread. "www.quackwhatch" was started in the states and does its best to pour scorn on any remidy that is not part of the mainstream system. This include now more estblished complimentary medicines such as homeopathy and chiropractic to name but two. Many of the facts that it states are the result of some very disputed testing. One of the main contributers in the past being a Dr Katz who has been discredited in the states for unethical behaviour. My point is that many of the facts in sites like this are no more proven fact than those in the article of which at least there is some anecdotal evidence. I'm not going to comment on the article as I think most people have already voiced the arguments for and against.

Jim
23/10/2002 at 07:27
And to think that I've been laying around, moaning and groaning, dosing myself up with cold remedies, drinking water and generally feeling sorry for myself for the last 3 days when I could have simply got some essential oils and felt better right away....yeah right...I'd only feel better that way if George Clooney was the one rubbing them in...atishoo.
23/10/2002 at 11:18
SS - thanks for the link - very interesting.
23/10/2002 at 11:57
Time for me to bale out, but before I go ...

OK. OK. Yes there’s a whole lot of wisdom in traditional medicine. Trouble is, there’s a whole lot of dross there too. Dock leaf maybe excellent for nettle stings (and it’s certainly harmless); rhino horn does not cure impotence (and it results in a dead rhino). All knowledge starts off as anecdote and hunches. The next step is to formulate hypotheses and test them. If alternative/traditional medicine wants to make claims for itself then it has to be subject to the rigours of science.

I’d be mad to put all my faith in conventional Western medicine. It has had numerous failures. For years I was prescribed a drug for my hay fever that has subsequently been shown to be completely useless. I’d also hate for doctors to be pure scientists – if patient presents with symptom X then I prescribe drug Y. Might as well rely on a computer. Also, the successes of Western medicine encourage us to see it as a cure-all, causing doctors to over-prescribe and over-intervene on the off chance that there might be a slight benefit and with great fear of litigation if things go wrong.

But Western medicine is founded on rationalism and science, and I believe in and have faith in these approaches. None of us would want airplanes to be built according to any other principles, why should we vary from them when it comes to our own bodies?

My approach to drugs and doctors is to stay away from them as much as possible and believe in my own powers of recuperation. This certainly holds good for colds and flu. They take six days to clear what ever drugs you take, and half-a-dozen days if you take nothing at all.

Anyway, assuming I can keep the sniffles at bay, I’ll be in Stroud on Sunday. May be see you there :)


23/10/2002 at 12:31
...unfortunately whilst Western medicine is indeed founded on rationalism and science it's practitioners are generally not scientists and may know less about science than many of their well-read patients.
Whatsmore the prevailing Scientific paradigm (aaarrgh) espoused often precludes even cursory consideration of "alternative" approaches

Mind you I have been a bit annoyed myself by hoardings advertising pro-biotic yogurts as a defense against winter colds so maybe you're right Dan

To be fair to Runners World, the article's author does describe themself as a naturopathic Dr - perhaps that's enough to warn readers to make of it what they wish
Bionic Ironwolf    pirate
23/10/2002 at 13:54
Interesting reading and obviously there's a sharp dichotomy here whether you're for or against trad folklore medicines. I won't presume to argue with any experts, but here in Germany a lot of credence is placed in herbal remedies and teas. I think it's like a lot of things, if you believe in something it works for you. It's like that old saying - if it helps to turn your hat around during a card game, then it helps.
23/10/2002 at 14:39
My whole approach to medicine changed about three years ago when I was at a barbecue and got talking to a really nice bloke who'd been a highly respected GP for many years. He told me that none of his three children (all grown up by them) had ever had antibiotics. That says an awful lot about pharmaceutical medicine when the practitioners don't even trust it.

I know I'll be dismissed as a crank for saying this but take painkillers for headaches and you'll probably get more headaches.

I swear by echinacea and a healthy diet. If you have a strong immune system you can cope with most illnesses and you probably will avoid most
23/10/2002 at 15:11
Those countries which prescribe more antibiotics have less heart disease.
23/10/2002 at 15:31
Freaky, that's an interesting fact, but is there a connection at all? The factors that cause heart disease are reasonable well known and the apparent correlation with antibiotic usage could well be because of other factors (like the telephones per household/lung cancer correlation).

General medical practice has shifted against the widespread use of antibotics except where necessary. This is because of the dual problem of contributing to the resistance of the bacteria involved plus the harm caused by hammering natural bacteria that make an important contribution to the bodies natural systems.

The term conventional seems to get used almost as an insult about medical practice. All it means in this context is "evidence based". Maybe I'm odd, but I would expect all medical opinions to be evidence based. Any other opinion, come to that.
26/10/2002 at 21:32
I`ve only just come across this thread, but thought i`d share with you a very interesting conversation I had with a paramedic about 4 years ago. We were talking about why it is you generally get colds/flu only in the winter. He said that when it`s cold we as people tend to over heat our houses, cars, offices etc and also wear to many clothes and create a warm, woist atmosphere which is a perfect breeding ground for bugs. In summer we drive with the windows down and have better ventilation at home and wear far less clothes. He suggested wearing/heating the least you can tolerate and ensuring proper ventilation in winter. It made sense so I tried it and have only had 1 or 2 colds since (in 4 years). I used to suffer far more.
26/10/2002 at 21:56
What gets me is the people who have a little sniffle and say "I've got a touch of flu".

There is a lot of evidence suggesting echinacea works to boost the immune system and wards off colds.
27/10/2002 at 16:09
Glenn, yes actually there is a correlation gum disease is linked to heart disease research seems to suggest that increased antibiotic usage decreases those bacteria that cause gum disease, thesebacteria are also linked to heart disease, increased resistance is linked to misuse but i think that this country is following the wrong line of logic.
04/10/2004 at 22:19
I've been boosting my pretty lousy immune system with double the recommended dose of vitamin C and taking echinacea too for the last few weeks. I've been juicing daily, eating my 5 fruit & veg, having regular rest days & seeing a reflexologist monthly to try and remain healthy. I caught a cold, recovered far more quickly than usual (apparently), left it a few days than did a slow, short run yesterday. This afternoon the sniffs returned and I can feel the beginnings of a cough. This happened all through last winter and I only ran in fits and starts for months. I want to run the marathon in April but don't know what else I can do to stay healthy.
LOK
05/10/2004 at 00:30
i've figured out you have to
avoid tubes/packed trains
avoid young kids
avoid air conditioning systems
don't touch door handles

etc
in other words not really possible to avoid it without missing out on most things involved in life and turning into hermit

it's a pain in the a***

i have a cold at the mo

but i have had great success with echinacea and this is my first cold this year
LOK
LOK
05/10/2004 at 00:33
supe
sorry meant to say am sympathetic..
probably did not sound it !

(i am really pd off myself with this heavy cold/sore throat cause only just got back to running after layoff due to calf tear)

LOK
05/10/2004 at 08:04
Gosh, this is an oldy!

< cough cough cough >
05/10/2004 at 08:51
My tuppence worth:-

When folks are desperate, they will try anything that may help. Unfortunately, quacks do jump on the bandwagon and make a lot of money out of it. I've been very sceptical of alternative/complementary therapies in the past, but when you're in dire straits, you'll try 'em.
05/10/2004 at 15:37
lady of kent
you sound as pd off as me! I've really been looking after myself these last few months but it seems to have made no difference. Unfortunately I work with small children - so there's always plenty of bugs around me!
But I am desperate so will try the essential oils, the nutritionist and any other pearls of wisdom that come my way! I usually play hockey as well as run but I've also got tennis elbow so can't do either!
12/10/2004 at 19:27
I found some supplements in ASDA, it is basicly Vit C, Zinc and Garlic, I tink it was called Immune.

I have used it in the past with good results I tend to take when I first feel a cold coming and keep taking for a week.

I took my last one, last Wednesday when I thought I was getting a cold it stopped it and I ran the l1310k on Sunday in a reasonable time (for me).

By the way the cold arrived on Monday but is neally gone.

I will have to go and get some more next time I am in ASDA.

I also think not all these remidies work for all people.

Hope this may be of use

BigNige

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