Is Lance Armstrong now a toxic brand?

1000 pages of evidence that he was The King of Doping

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bburn plO.dder    pirate
24/10/2012 at 09:58
HalfRunnerHalfBiscuit wrote (see)

Tour de France winners tested positive, been sanctioned or admitted doping in recent years

1996 Bjarne Riis

1997 Jan Ullrich

1998 Marco Pantani

1999-2005 Lance Armstrong

2006 Floyd Landis

2007, 2009, 2010 Alberto Contador

It's no wonder people think they all cheat when you see that list.

And surely the fact that Contador won this year's Vuelta off the back of his drugs ban has got to raise some serious questions about what's still going on.

Or is it just me that was highly suspicious of that result and his performance.

24/10/2012 at 10:09

Didn't seem that suspicious to me - he struggled to beat riders that he would have beaten easily at his best and he couldn't sustain the attacks he put in whereas in the past he'd just keep it going to the finish.  I expect there are still riders doping - but I wouldn't have picked Contador at the Vuelta this year as a performance that stands out as almost certainly doped.   Contador is still probably the best grand tour rider of his generation as well as being a cheat.

cougie    pirate
24/10/2012 at 10:20
If you dope in training - and have done so for years - you'll be able to train harder.
I'm not sure how long these benefits last but it must help.

I think Cadel is clean - I've heard no rumours about him and he's more human when he rides. Lance didn't have a weak day in 7 years. Cadel has a couple every tour.
24/10/2012 at 11:33
mcs wrote (see)

What money on Cadel Evans, have you seen his eyes?

It's the size of his chin and eyebrows that worry me. I'm not even trying to be funny about it, or cast doubts. But one of the acknowledged aspects of riders taking HGH (Human Growth Hormone), especially at an early age when bones are still growing, is that they develop big hands, lower jaws, long limbs and often, a ridge above the eyebrows. Apparently Tyler Hamilton's hands are freakishly large like shovels on the end of his arms.

Maybe the idiots who consider that everyone should give up and allow all riders to dope, should try living with such lifelong deformities, just because a rider wanted to be able to compete. It's really unacceptable. And the less money you have, the less you can afford to have doctors watching over your drug abuse for side effects and dangerous outcomes.

 

 

cougie    pirate
24/10/2012 at 11:39
Tyler Hamilton says Cadel is clean. He'd know better than us ?
24/10/2012 at 11:45

^ Totally. The ultimate consequences of a drugs free-for-all don't bear thinking about.

I think this article written by an age-group athlete who decided to experiment with PEDs puts it quite well w.r.t the so-called "level playing field" argument...

"As for the larger issue of drugs in sports, eight months in the world of the artificially enhanced convinced me more than ever that it's critical for an organization like the World Anti-Doping Agency to succeed. This group, founded after the Salt Lake Olympics by Canadian anti-doping leader Dick Pound, represents the most serious international attempt to come to grips with sports doping. WADA is the logical response to an argument that gets aired from time to time: that since cheating is impossible to eliminate, the only recourse is to simply legalize everything—that way, no athlete has a hidden advantage over another, since everyone would be free to try anything that might increase endurance.

"Like a lot of powerfully bad ideas, that one has a certain mad logic. But it would turn every sport into a test of how much damage an athlete was willing to risk to improve performance, and would basically force every serious athlete to cheat and risk his or her health. Athletic contests would have a strange life-or-death quality. If we don't keep drugs out of these events, they become freak shows, the athletes like gladiators—with us playing the role of decadent Romans, urging them on."

24/10/2012 at 11:47

That was in response to Tricky. What's happened to the bloody editing function?  Sort it out, RW!!

24/10/2012 at 11:50
Interesting listening to Prudhomme at this mornings TdF presentation...

2 trips up Alp Dhuez on a sinle day would have me reaching for the pills
24/10/2012 at 12:09

The concept that a doping free for all creates a level playing field is utter rubbish but thanks Phil for the confirming evidence. Even now, riders who pursue a micro-dosing approach to EPO get competitive advantage over their fellow riders if they have a naturally low Haemoglobin count. They can take more EPO than other riders and still fall below the threshold levels where detection is registered.

DaveTES - missing you on the Paris thread. The comment you didn't like was utterly ironic, the polar opposite of it's surface meaning.

All in all, I can't avoid the feeling that the UCI leadership has to be swept away as corrupt, partial and incompetent administrators. Only after they have gone does cycling have a chance of becoming credibly fair. We should all be disatisfied with long winning streaks on Grand Tours, of sustained dominant displays. It all indicates highly suspicious and unnatural physiological conditions. Superman doesn't exist. Our heroes should have recogniseable flaws and weaknesses.

24/10/2012 at 12:13
Cav interviewing Brad on Eurosport at the moment is hilarious
bburn plO.dder    pirate
24/10/2012 at 14:11
popsider wrote (see)

Didn't seem that suspicious to me - he struggled to beat riders that he would have beaten easily at his best and he couldn't sustain the attacks he put in whereas in the past he'd just keep it going to the finish.  I expect there are still riders doping - but I wouldn't have picked Contador at the Vuelta this year as a performance that stands out as almost certainly doped.   Contador is still probably the best grand tour rider of his generation as well as being a cheat.

Maybe I am wrong, but I was more thinking about the way that he didn't seem to fade as the tour progressed, but got stronger and didn't fatigue or crack in the way that Rodriguez finally did.

Maybe my viewing of it was tainted by knowing about the recent ban. Anyhow, it was a great race, very enjoyable to watch. I actually enjoyed it more then TdF as a viewing spectacle (despite the Wiggins win)

mcs
24/10/2012 at 15:45

Phil interesting comments well quoted. Agree entirely.....cast out all the top boys and start again for me please......Contador should not have been allowed to ride this year he could have been taking them in training up to this spring and still not tested positively......

24/10/2012 at 15:50

I wonder to what extent that dope tests are still considered to be the equivalent of an IQ test for an elite rider? Just how easy is it to pass them? My understanding was that the blood passport baselining system has really closed the window in which riders can dope, so they get much smaller benefits as the testers are now looking for the impact of doping, rather than the residue of the drugs themselves.

25/10/2012 at 16:39
See it's cost Julich his job now
25/10/2012 at 17:22

Well credit to Team Sky for being willing to take a hit for the sake of squeaky cleanness. I can only hope this spirit of change sweeps over the UCI and that Greg Lemonde's words snowball through Switzerland tmrw.

25/10/2012 at 17:29
Suppose Sean and Shane later today will follow him
31/10/2012 at 13:37
01/11/2012 at 19:23

Fantastic news that Paul Kimmage has launched a criminal complaint against Hein Verbruggen and Pat McQuaid, alleging corruption at the UCI. Has anybody put their hands in their pockets to contribute to the legal fund - a great opportunity for some people action to remove these two incompetents from their positions - along with all the danger they create for cycling athletes who don't want to dope to win.


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