Jimmy Saville

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03/11/2011 at 10:17

Corinthian - do it here seems to be the consensus.

 Cougie - without looking back I think I remember the typist has noted audience discomfort.  And people who watch progs like HIGNFY and Mock the Week etc are used to comedians using shock tactics etc.  I know this was before Frankie Boyle but still.  Also sometime laughter is a reaction to shocking statements.  I've laughed at stuff before realising it was inappropriate.

I'm not saying at all that I believe it.  just interested in people's theories.

03/11/2011 at 10:30

I don't know whether Corinth has specific experience of scriptwriting but I can see where he's coming from.  As I was reading it I was thinking...  Paul Merton wouldn't say that... they wouldn't react like that... Jimmy would've stormed off by now... etc.

Interesting how I thought of Chris Morris while I was reading it.  This article mentions him being linked to the rumours about the transcript's origins.  Also makes a good point about the pun on minor/miner having "an air of deliberation" about it.

So, load of bollocks then, most probably.

03/11/2011 at 10:49

thats interesting Philpub because as I read it I could envisage Merton saying it...  I guess its down to individual interpretation.  

However, should this rumour/story whatever keep doing the rounds I guess someone will tweet Mr Merton or something and ask the question.  And if he didn't say it, would he not make a comment to that effect?  What do you think?  Does he even have Twitter? 

I was slightly surprised to find not one comment on line from any audience members.. I was there and it happened or I was there and its bullshit.   Have they all been beamed up...

editted to add..  Who was the other guest on this episode of HIGNFY?

Edited: 03/11/2011 at 11:04
03/11/2011 at 11:04
I've knowledge of screenwriting and how TV is made

I don't want to reproduce the script but will point out some glaring omissions and signifiers that it's bogus

1. Pauses - where are the pauses? All language is as much about pauses as words - comic timing is all about pauses... where are they?... very,very few... remember this is a post production edit. So the pauses might have been edited out - but in there lies a problem...

2. I've no doubt that the transcript is based upon a real conversation - but there are doctored elements to this script... Merton's lines in particular don't ring true. I've no doubt he said something, but not the words ascribed to him. Why? - he's far funnier and he's using non-authentic language. Listen to his voice saying those words... listen out for the non-timing and lack of comic value... is this really Merton? If it is, he's having a shocking night... but for argument's sake let's imagine it is... which leads to the next point...

3. Language - Merton's use of invective. I've been watching HIGNFY for more years than I can remember - the words ascribed to Merton I've never heard him use before 'shitter' 'Pus-filled' etc

4. The transcript is cut in exactly the same way as a post production programme is cut and so is subject to editing. Let's imagine for a second that it is a true representation of an actual conversation - where's the overlapping speech? Where's the times where they are all speaking at once (like in real life) again, where are the significant pauses?

Okay, we can get around that as we're told that the person might be transcribing this from an 'out-take' - so we're in a situation were the programme has been cut into the 'Speaker-Reaction -Speaker - Reaction' format we're so used to - that can't be! Read it - the transcriber has knowledge of things they wouldn't have known about with a cut-outtake. It's as if the transcriber has knowledge of all camera shots and all dialogue at the same time... and thats the way the script is written... that's impossible! He or she can only transcribe what they see and hear - there are lots of clues here that this person 'saw and heard' everything - that just can't be an accurate transcription of an edit - even a very early edit.

So our transcriber has either transcribed this from a live showing and is relying on memory and has perfect recall - in which case they have forgotten to make it an authentic conversation.

Or, they are transcribing edited footage that is a 'perfect' edit - in that everything that happened, from every camera angle, from every snatch of dialogue, and every single event has been captured - in which case where has all the detail come from of things that you'd need more than one camera at a time to pick up on?

There's loads more clues but I have to go to work... I'll pick this up later
Edited: 03/11/2011 at 11:09
03/11/2011 at 11:07
I actually think the script captures how they speak quite well.

I agree it's obviously fake though - I can't imagine that happening in front of a studio audience and it not being common knowledge long before now and I agree even Jimmy Savile would likely have stormed out.

Most likely the guy was just a bit of an old letch and that is what the Nolans and the nurses didn't like about him.

The more extreme stories are more than likely urban myths - people that appear different are easy targets and in our society if you are an older rather odd single bloke who entertains children sadly people are going to wonder - if you are also famous then the internet is a great way for rumours to snowball. The stuff like the picture of him at the Jersey (or was it Guernsey?) care home where there was supposed to be a paedophile ring operating and the photo of him introducing Frank Bruno to Peter Sutcliffe are unfortunate but really if you spend your life in public there are going to be a couple of photos (out of millions) that could be used out of context to support whatever rumours people want to think up.

x-post - I think you have a point with the technical stuff Corinth yes I suppose you would need to be watching an edited final take to get that detail - but myself I could imagine Merton saying those things - if it were real which I agree it's not.
Edited: 03/11/2011 at 11:12
cougie    pirate
03/11/2011 at 11:28
MP Diane Abbott was the other guest with Savile when he was on the show.

Pops - I could imagine Frankie Boyle using those words - but not Merton. I've seen his stage show too and he's just not that coarse from what I remember.
03/11/2011 at 11:42

Corinthian - thank you for doing that.  I'm also on my way out soon and would like to read your comments alongside the transcript so I can see what you mean by the post production stuff.

Cougie - I agree that Merton may not include those types of words in his stage act.  However if this was genuine you could argue that he knew for sure that this conversation would not be broadcast.  Therefore he was free to say what was on his mind!    If this was genuine.  obviously. 

M.r Zuvai    pirate
03/11/2011 at 11:51

i'm just going to leave this here

JS at the Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey which he claimed to have never visited...

cougie    pirate
03/11/2011 at 11:57
Amazing what you can do with Photoshop eh ?
03/11/2011 at 12:03
M.r Zuvai    pirate
03/11/2011 at 12:24
^ fair shout
03/11/2011 at 12:26

That is so obviously faked Mr Z.  The badge cuts across the girl in the foreground, has no shadow, is clearer than the rest of the image, isn't even a real JFI badge.  And there is no way of verifying where the shot was taken.

Even it it was at that home, what does that prove?  I've been to Auschwitz - I'm neither Jewish nor a Nazi. Surely visiting homes, school and youth clubs was all part of what the show and JS was about.

03/11/2011 at 12:41
I don't think it is faked - doesn't it come from the Sun who linked him to the care home - implying he was part of the abuse without actually saying so much. He's supposed to have got an injunction to stop them doing so. Far as I remember initially he denied visiting the place before the photo was made public.

Of course I'm sure not everyone who visited that care home was a paedophile/child abuser and as a celebrity who did charity work he's just the kind of person who might quite innocently visit somewhere like that.
cougie    pirate
03/11/2011 at 12:46
That photo doesn't appear to be from HDG ? And as BDB points out - the sign is superimposed.

Its basically just a photo of Savile with some children. Shock horror !
M.r Zuvai    pirate
03/11/2011 at 12:58

the process of splicing a label onto a photograph has been around a lot longer than photoshop

but as i already accepted from BDB that doesn't appear to be from HDG

03/11/2011 at 13:00
cougie wrote (see)
 Its basically just a photo of Savile with some children. Shock horror !

irrefutable proof.

what was a grown man doing anywhere near children?

M.r Zuvai    pirate
03/11/2011 at 13:02
Badly Drawn Bloke wrote (see)

Even it it was at that home, what does that prove? I've been to Auschwitz - I'm neither Jewish nor a Nazi. Surely visiting homes, school and youth clubs was all part of what the show and JS was about.

well, if it is him at HDG (that photo in itself isn't proof) then it does raise questions as to why he raised an injection to prevent the Sun reporting he ever went there

my honest opinion is that if there was any credible evidence the CPS would have acted on it - i just saw the picture and thought it would interest the people in this discussion

03/11/2011 at 13:05
M.r Zuvai wrote (see)

well, if it is him at HDG (that photo in itself isn't proof) then it does raise questions as to why he raised an injection to prevent the Sun reporting he ever went there

don't you think in the light of his charity work and his good reputation that it is no surprise he did not want to tarnish his name by being associated with the place?

the story at the time was obviously malicious, a hatchet job to make out there was more to it.

there have certainly been far more frivolous injunctions raised in recent years in the cause of protecting people's reputation.

cougie    pirate
03/11/2011 at 13:08
Mr Zuval - you talk as though the injunction is fact ? Where is this from ?
M.r Zuvai    pirate
03/11/2011 at 13:13
M.r Zuvai wrote (see)

my honest opinion is that if there was any credible evidence the CPS would have acted on it - i just saw the picture and thought it would interest the people in this discussion

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