Lets hope they ban fox hunting today!

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15/09/2004 at 08:40
But why the 2 year adjustment period for the hunters.... is the concept (today i will not be a barbaric, cruel b'stard and will go find a more humane way to spend my day) a little too difficult for them to understand????
15/09/2004 at 08:47
So that it keeps people distracted from the real issues affecting society.
15/09/2004 at 08:48
fox hunting has been round longer than parliament !!!

Barbaric, cruel b'stard, sounds like most of our elected officials... lets ban them ?
15/09/2004 at 08:51
Defo Dave.
Ban anyone who wants to ban anything. Legalise MP hunting.
15/09/2004 at 08:53
They've put it off for two years.. and guess what???? that'll be after the next election.

Ban it yes, but I don't understand why a Govt with this much majority lacks the courage of its convictions.

I thought Govt provided leadership and then the people judged it......

ah well...
15/09/2004 at 08:54
Without wishing to get involved in the debate itself, there are a lot of people who are either directly employed, or whose livelehoods depend to a greater or lesser extent on hunting. For example out here there's a blacksmith who services a hunt, and - believe it or not - two guys who run a drystone walling business who are employed by the Peak Park to repair walls damaged, in part by local hunts.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the debate its only reasonable to give such people time to take stock. After all you'd expect no less if they were closing down the place where you worked. A lot of people stand not only to lose their jobs, but in some cases their homes as well.
15/09/2004 at 08:54
I'm with you Johnny ....

As you said it's not as if MP's haven't got better things to do with thier time...

Love the way Bambi Blair has rounded up all the "silly stuff" into one days worth of debate, and then if you don't vote it through I'll set my whips on you ( did you know that the term "whips" comes from Hunting with dogs ?)

I love a well constructed and properly conducted debate...
15/09/2004 at 09:03
lets have an indepth debate!!!
15/09/2004 at 09:09
You have a point, FR, but this has been looking likely to happen for the last several years, so it shouldn't come as a suprise. But hunts haven't made a start in preparing for it yet...for example by ceasing the breeding of hounds, or (without wanting to get into a big debate) by converting to drag hunting
15/09/2004 at 09:28
Ban dogging with hunters!
15/09/2004 at 09:41
FR, in areas where fox-hunting operates, what are the arguments against converting to drag hunting? WOuld this really lessen the impact of a ban on local businesses, or would hunt followers drift away if there was no fox involved?
15/09/2004 at 09:45
WHY? - if banning fox hunting then ban fish, horse racing, dog racing, etc.....

folks don't complain bout shooting season, or shooting rabbits etc..... so why fox hunting - have any off you every been fox hunting - prob. NOT!!!!

99% off the foxes that are caught are old one's anyway!!!! - and thats if they catch a fox. 9 times out off 10 they don't.

as i grew up on a farm - i was involved in fox hunting from a very early age - foxes do lots off damage - example you spent 100 quid on some chickens to wake up the next morning to find them all killed by the fox!

fox hunting creates 100's off jobs - do you really want to get rid off these jobs?
15/09/2004 at 09:46
I don't honestly think it'll be banned. I'm not saying I don't want it banned, but I think the middleway option will win the day. Sad but true.
15/09/2004 at 09:48
and... I think the dogs should be set on the hunters. Rip the feckers apart, that's what I say!
15/09/2004 at 09:53
Middle way?

ban or not ban.

The argument against banning that refers to the damage etc doesn't hold water. If they need to be killed there are humane ways of doing it.

I live in the country and fully understand the damage etc, but we are talking about the means, not the end.
15/09/2004 at 09:54
FR, I can appreciate what your saying but when they closed down all the mines and steelworks etc did any of these hunters spare a thought for all the workers who were trained to do nothing other than mine coal etc? If miners and steelworkers can accept their fate and retrain to do other jobs then so can they. And as TD points out they've had plenty of warning that it's only a matter of time.

Many businesses will suffer a knock on effect but they will adapt, as any good business should. They know how much of their income comes from this trade, and that it will end, so they should have been looking at how to diversify in readiness for the ban.

Any business man/woman who has simply stuck their head in the sand hoping that the ban won't happen deserves to go bust for such ignorance and/or plain stupidity.

As for the reason why it SHOULD be banned, well that is so obvious it shouldn't need saying. The whole idea of this 'sport' is barbaric. If a pack of dogs chased down a man or a child and ripped him/her to pieces everyone would soon be calling for the dogs to be destroyed. If your pet was savagely ripped apart by someone else's dog you would want the dog to be put down - so why do people suddenly change their views when it comes to a wild fox being ripped apart? Just because the fox is wild doesn't mean it hurts any less to have a dog sink it's teeth into it. And the idea that to some people this is not only ok but a source of enjoyment is sick to say the least.

They should have banned it years ago and let these toffs, with nothing better to do than kill foxes, go out out and get a proper job that actually benefits society.
15/09/2004 at 09:55
Quite right Barkles, but... If ya get DEFRA involved, it'll cost. If fox numbers need to be cut back, whats wrong with culling? There is no need to get a pack of dogs to rip em apart.

Tri-Harder, I guess you were upset when badger baiting and dog fighting were banned?
15/09/2004 at 09:56
they should ban angling to, that's horribly cruel

i'm ashamed to admit that my dad is a barbaric angler. he tried to argue to me that it didn't hurt the fish, because the bit the hook goes through is cartilege. so i asked him if i could stick a hook through his kneekap, or his 'nosebone', and yank him into the air by that?

of course fishing is one cruel "sport" that will never get banned, as too many chavs and pikeys do it to make pursuing a ban attractive to any political party.
15/09/2004 at 09:57
Your way of life could be severely affected if they change to drag hunting.
15/09/2004 at 10:01
From my point of view there's no argument at all, but I don't run or support a hunt. I have little or nothing to do with them and my business is unaffected by their activities. However I do know that a hunt is run as a business and interacts with the local community in the same way. Should a hunt decide to close rather than convert to a preyless format than that will have the same effect on the local community as closing, say, a local factory in a town.
You can hardly expect a farrier to second guess what decision the hunt masters will finally make. In the case of the drystone wallers they're employed by a third party who certaibly have no love for the hunters, but take their reposibilities to maintain the Park seriously.

As to whether followers would drift away from a preyless hunt, well perhaps some would, but I suspect that others would be drawn to the spectacle. Personally I'd like to see more trail hounding (the canine equivalent to fell or cross country running), where the hounds race competitively following a pre laid scent. The finish to a hound race is something to stir the blood rather than spill it....
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