'Mature' runners.

I am extremely lucky in that I have no digestive problems with any gels or sport bars. The only thing I've ever had trouble with is Isostar drink. On an Ironman triathlon, during the cycle leg I've always carried Hammer gels in caffeine, raspberry or lemon flavour, supplemented by gummy bears, peanuts, and ginger cake. Water in the bottle on my bike frame and sports drink in the one on my aero bars. I've always taken whatever's on offer at the refreshment stands, usually I'll take a fresh bottle of drink and a banana, maybe also a sports bar. Took me a few goes to feel comfortable taking nutrition from the helpers without nealry falling off - just takes practice.

Matsmum - Charly did indeed make me proud on his first go at attack work. At first the "baddie" just stands in front of the dog with a stuffed hessian sausage on a string and taunts the dog by pulling it away from him, The handler, i.e. me, holds the leash taught so the dog can't reach the "prey", until the helper nods to let him get it. Charly grabbed it first go. 2nd time he actually barked which Dieter was surprised at - the dog's supposed to, but it's rare for one to do that on his first time.

You can probably find information if you google "Schutzdienst" but it may only come up in German as it isn't practiced in England. It's a game for the dogs.The whole basis of it is complete and utter obedience from your dog. He wants to get hold of his "trophy" and must learn he gets it only as a reward for properly completing the exercise and must relinquish it immediately upon command. At the highest level, a dog will be sent to scout round 6 hides before finally coming upon the "baddie", he must commence to bark and is then rewarded with his trophy. Must let go on command and return to his handler. There is much more to do to pass an exam and it takes a lot of training, but my older dog Nemo is really good at it,will take the next exam level in autumn.

I tend to use gels for the marathon only. I might use 1 on my longest training runs but this year I'm trying to go unfuelled in training, just to make it harder on my body so the conversion of reserve energy by the body is forced to happen.

17 for me today, still sluggish and hip a bit sore.  Tough conditions out there so well done all those who managrd a decent run.

Oops, forgot to add our Sunday morning training - normal day, 2000m swim followed by a  run with the dogs. I'll be glad when this winter is over, I'm fed up with snow now.

TWells 1/2m today and only 1900 runners turned up out of 2800 entries. It's such a shame when so many folks were turned away because the race limit was reached early.

Did 31 mins of 300m run and 100m walk. Didn't count the number or pace.

Tiger
Lovely to see you but clearly you weren't running with your normal fluidity.
Wish you had stopped; I get very few chances to practise my role as Hugmeister.

Redhead
Very useful 18 miler there. You're right to be pleased. It was cold marshalling today.

matsmum.
Finding out what works in the way of refuelling is really a bit of trial and error. Very few people agree on what works. You need three things in the fuel if it's possible: electrolytes, quick release fuel like glucose and slow release fuel like fructose to make the effects last longer. You will need water with gels to wash them down otherwise they can be difficult to get down and the worst gel I've ever had was a chocolate one. It was disgusting. The most common drink is Lucozade Sport but it's very sweet and has only fast acting content. My personal choice is "Go" products but they don't suit everyone and I use them only for marathon races.

I would back the tip about walking when drinking. The few seconds break is useful and it stops you drowning.
JJ

Fair point Johnny, and you dont want to waste good beer

Hi all

New to this as my astonishing lack of IT capabilities siggests.

..........And lack of keyboard skills.

Have agreed to do the 'run' leg (10K) of a relay triathlon with an old friend. Have boldly claimed (see - I split infinitives too) that I can deliver this in 46 minutes, which, in my pomp (!'m 58), would have been the proverbial stroll in the park (pb sub 40 when I too was sub 40!)

However, time has taken its toll! I have been doing the occasional untimed run and went out yesterday with stopwatch. Did 5 miles in 39 mins. This is quite a bit slower than I need to get to (June) for my 10K target.

Any comments/advise please? 

Morning all,

No running today but some heavy lifting as we have a hay delivery 

Hi John and welcome to the thread.  If you can do 5 miles in 39 minutes already then you are well on track for your 10k target in June.  I'm a plodder but we have some speedy boys on here who will be able to give you some valuable advice.  Good luck with your training and pop back in here to share it with us   Oh and I'd be ecstatic if I could manage 5 miles in 39 minutes!

JJ, crikey that was a small field.  I didn't think you'd have that problem as the weather was no worse than some other years.  I hope you had your thermal undercrackers on for your marshalling duties!

Right, time to tackle the VAT return.

Thanks for the encouragement. In turn, I'd be ecstatic if I could lift some heavy bales (spelling?) of hay - or even tackle a VAT return, come to that.

Like many I've got to balance the training so that I get to the starting line (danger of over-training and consequent breakdown) and finishing line in my target time (danger of undertraining and being too slow).

It's not rocket-science is it? But very easy to get wrong.

Cheers!

June is quite a way off JB. If you can already cover 5 miles on your own you are sure to add speed and distance with 3 months to go and in race conditions. First get up to the distance, then work on your speed with regular tempo session or timed efforts e.g. 4* 1 mile. The parkrun is also a great option for a 5k blast- like a semi race environment.

John B
Can't see a problem with getting down to 46 mins for 10k by June.You're alrready at 48 minute pace. How many times a week do you want to train?  I would want to start with one session each week of 400m reps, maximum 6 to start with and initially at 1min 45 - 1min 50 for each rep. Take 90 secs recovery between each rep. If it's too comfortable shorten the recovery rather than do more intervals.  The other weekly session I would want to do would be 6 miles starting comfortably and each mile getting a bit quicker than the previous one. Run the last mile as quick as you sensibly can. You will have done one speed session and one speed/endurance run. Any other runs can be built up to 7 miles nice and easy. You must have sensible recovery time each week too.


Redhead
It was cold enough for thermals and the www you kindly knitted for me.
JJ

Great advice - thanks! I shall endeavour to incorporate these regimes into my hitherto rather shambolic approach to training.

Cheers!

Ran a hilly 7 in freezing conditions yesterday with no2 daughter we were hufffing and puffing up the hills as we did part of the Grindleford Gallop in reverse. That is going to be tough a week on Saturday hope the weather warms a little. Get a bit chilled on longer runs........only three days left to work here then done with the running commute, sad about that..............a 40 minute commute by car costly and rubbish hate driving still its a job. Have a good week all. Stay safe.

I've never really got the hang of running anything over about an hour and over the years about 80% of my runs would have been less than half an hour. (This explains my relatively appalling marathon times.) I've always put this down to different physical 'systems' kicking in as the distance gets longer but the more I think about it I think it's more of a wimpish, mental thing; or at least a function of personality.

I'm in awe of the runners who can go out and knock off a 15 miles+ effort; in 30 years of half decent running (1:31 half marathon; 39 min 10k) I would have only run this distance (or more) about 20-30 times. And while I've recorded just about every run for the last 20 years I've never even kept 'weekly' records as such; they just don't register with me. 

So - you longer distance types, why do you clock up these distances? If it's in specific preparation for 'long' event even I can see the point. But if not, is it for fun? Weight loss? Do you still have any toe-nails?

Can you convert me? Or are there other quick and dirty (but nevertheless dedicated and competitive) runners out there?

john b.
The reason for doing longer runs is to build endurance so that you get the best out of yourself when you step up to 1/2ms and marathons. For instance, with a 10k time of 39 mins I would expect a 1/2m time between 1:20 and 1:25 if you do the endurance training to go with the speed. There's no need to keep weekly records. All you need is to remember the types of training you need to do each week.
Another reason for developing a structured approach is that if you keep on doing the same sort of runs your race times will plateau at roughly the same pace.
At some point, if you want to run quicker, you can only do so by improving your training.
JJ

Hi John and welcome to the thread. I am 67 and have been running since I was 35, but didn't knuckle down to serious training until I was about 41, when I joined my first running club. I will leave the training tips to JJ, who is a qualified coach but advise you of my background which I hope will encourage you.

You say that you easily got under 40 minutes for 10k when you were under 40, which proves that you have natural ability. I ran 35.52 when I was 43, and 44.00 when I was your age. I ran 48.00 in a trail race 10k just before Christmas, so I am sure that with your background, you have the ability, providing you undertake structured training and increase your mileage, to achieve your target. I wish you all the best, and you can be assured that you will get plenty of encouragement from "us oldies" on here!

In the light of this quality of advice (JJ and Terence) I shall have to stop referring to my peak in the past tense! 

The message I take from this is 'structured'. So specifically, let's say I don't want to go beyond 10k (told you I was a wimp) - what's the 'shortest long' training run I'd need to do; what could I get away with (weekly?).

And for a 46 min 10k what time would I need to be able to do this relatively long run in?

I know I'm becomng a bit of a case study (and a high maintenance one at that) here - but if I promise to heed and act on advice then I'll try and let you know how I progress.

I'm 5 feet 6 inches and about 9stone 12lbs (was 11 stone 6 months ago) so no great problems carrying a lot of excess weight, by the way - so not a big factor I hope. (Was about the same - give or take - when  was doing decent times many years ago, although it's not quite got the same distribution!)

Anyway - I'll put it out there and see (and respect!) what you say.

Cheers!

Morning all,

Oooh, John B's a potential recruit to long distance running - but he's been snaffled back into the speedy runners' corner by JJ and TE!

John, you could get your 10k speed up and then progress to longer distances.  My marathoning (29 since I moved to distance in 2004) is to raise awareness about Alzheimer's/dementias and to raise money for research (http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/extremeknittingredhead gives details).  I also do silly stunts at the London marathon (I hold 2 Guinness World Records for knitting and crocheting whilst running round) to get the attention of the media so I can talk about why more money is needed for research into dementia.  I find the challenge of pushing myself to run long distances helps give me focus and thinking time too.

Following a chat with the quack yesterday I need to get my head round my latest cholesterol reading (7.3) which is on the cusp of requiring treatment.  Apparently, being fit, active, not over-weight, non-smoker since 1990, vegetarian, no family history of early death from a heart condition, I don't fit the norm for someone with such a high reading.  But I am now entering the danger zone, although my good cholesterol gives me a bit of protection.  Hey ho, it makes me wonder what's next! Carpe diem, that's for sure 

Right, back to training stuff.  Today will be intervals on the treddy plus some rower, static bike and core work.

Have a lovely day everyone