Northern Ireland Running - Page 3 - General running

Kenneth Bacon

04/01/2005 at 12:56

Hi everyone happy new year.

Hi James
Hope you have recovered from Glenariff. The stiffness has only just gone away. I have been told that Saturdays conditions were the worst in the ten years the event has been running.

Jape it would be unwise to try speed work if you don't have the miles built up. You could try incorporating speed it into you normal runs. Try upping the pace when you hit hills and jog down the far side or use lamposts or telegraph poles and increase the pace for a couple jog the next two and repeat. This way you anre still doing the miles but adding a bit of speed.

James Hislop

04/01/2005 at 13:15

Hi Jape, hope you had a good christmas.
I dont realy know what you could do for speed, if you join a running club I know they will do 'doggies' which you will run to a point, then jog to the next point, then run again the next point and so on.
To try and train for speed on your own would be very hard.
When I'm training myself for a quick pace I go to the gym because it tells you your mph and min-miles and then try and run the same distance at the same pace on the road a few days later.

James Hislop

04/01/2005 at 13:28

Hi Cartman, hows Switzerland?

I know East Antrim Harriers are a big running club, I have seen them at a few events.

I would agree with you about the mileage/speed theory, to be able to go a long distance you need to try and save as much energy as possible which means being comfortable, if you stuggle for pace a start to panic you will lose more energy.

pompeyrunner

04/01/2005 at 13:35

Sorry if I’m teaching you to suck eggs here, but a great piece of kit is a heart rate monitor - I've had one for 6 months and have reduced my 5 mile PB from about 49 to 42:01. You work out your max HR (bit of a punishing but only once a year session), and then your resting HR. In my opinion, there are only really two important heart rates - your 70% level and your 85% level. 70% is your recovery ceiling - the rate you do your long distance runs at (also your marathon pace)...85% is your threshold level - equivalent to your 10k race rate...and you would do your fast runs at this rate.

The idea is as your fitness improves you can run faster at the same heart rates. In my case when I started using the HRM, I was doing 11 minute miles at 70% effort - that's come down to about 9:30 per mile in 6 months.

James Hislop

04/01/2005 at 15:44

I have never been that keen on heart rate montor, I had always thought the monitors were being used by people who have heart and blood pressure trouble (slighlty niave).

I had read somewhere recently about excercising the heart and I am interested in hearing more, have you been working with the heart rate monitor for very long?

James Hislop

04/01/2005 at 16:05

Hi kenny

I took myself for a run last night, 10 miles from my house to the Ballymoney sign where the dual carriageway ends and back. I was a little stiff whilst warming but It was a very comfortable run and I feel ok today.

Would you recommend going to the International cross country this weekend?
I'm not working but I'm not sure whether to go or not.

Kenny do you use a heart rate monitor?

pompeyrunner

04/01/2005 at 16:11

James, there's even a section on this very website covering HRM training. No, it's not just for potential heart attacks ;-) It's a very effective tool for monitoring and improving your performance. Like I said, I got my 5 mile PB down from 49 to 42 in 6 months. I've been using the HRM for 6 months.

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=176

Jape

04/01/2005 at 16:35

Pompeyrunner, that sounds useful. Did you just run faster (i.e. kept your heart rate up) while doing your long runs then?

pompeyrunner

04/01/2005 at 16:55

my long runs are all done at 70% effort - the way you calculate it is you take 70% of the difference between your max HR and your resting HR, then add your resting HR.

* My max HR is 179 (measure this by doing hill runs, or in my case 4x400m sprints on the flat - you only need to measure this once a year thankfully)

* My resting HR is 44 (measure this first thing while still in bed - you can do this daily and change your percentages accordingly - it's a good measure of your day to day fitness, and can give early warning if you are coming down with something)

So for me 70% effort is:

0.7(179 - 44) + 44

= 139 bpm

When I started using the HRM, i would run 3 miles at 70% effort (139 bpm) in about 33 mins. I now do it in about 28 minutes. What happens is as you get fitter, you run faster at the same effort level. Hope that's clear.

pompeyrunner

04/01/2005 at 16:57

by the way i notice theres a lot of cross country in NI...i think the HRM would be less useful if you are running XC, as you are going to get random spikes in your heart rate, as you hit hills, jump over rivers etc. But its great for road running.

Kenneth Bacon

04/01/2005 at 21:13

I use a heart monitor on some of my runs. The links on this site are very good and tell you how to use it. I find it very useful for the long runs on a Sunday morning as you can keep an eye on your pace, you can set upper and lower values and it will beep when you go outside this zone. During speed sessions you can monitor your heart rate during recovery if your heart rate hasn't droped you can take a longer recovery time. I sometimes wear it during races to keep a check on my heart rate during races to see if I can push myself a bit further. They have come down in price and are alot cheaper than they use to be.
James if you go to the international cross country on Saturday you will be in the same race as the international runners and top local runners. I am lucky as a vet we run earlier in the day and can have a shower and enjoy the main races of the day. I wouldn'd recomend running if you don't have spikes as the ground will be soft and slippy after all the rain we've had recently.

baldyfrombangor

04/01/2005 at 21:34

hi all

and greetings from north down, which by the way has a great club www.northdownac.co.uk. caters for all ages and abilities.

check out the belfast 2005 thread on events for a pirate copy of this years route.

good luck if you are doing the international on sat, fast and furious and no prisoners taken!!

James Hislop

05/01/2005 at 10:38

Pompey Runner,
I was talking to a friend last night in the gym and I asked him about using a HRM, he was given one as a gift a few years ago. He said that he felt restricted to running at a slower pace and couldnt seem to use it in his training. I would often speak to him with my training as he has taken part in many marathons and completed 2 IRONman competitions.
What made you buy it or was it by reccomendation?

James Hislop

05/01/2005 at 11:16

Cheers Kenny,
I'll give it a miss then, I didnt really know what sort of race it would be.
I presume a big crowd would be there?

James Hislop

05/01/2005 at 11:19

Baldy.
I like the website but I couldnt find the link for the Belfast Marathon route.
Did you take part in the 'Race over the Glens'?

pompeyrunner

05/01/2005 at 11:31

James, it's true - at first you do feel a bit restricted. Before I started, my natural easy run rate was about 10 min miles. The HRM initially kept me down to about 10:30 min miles - a bit slower than I was used to. But after a month or so, as I got fitter, my times at the same effort level got quicker and quicker. My current 70% pace is about 9:30 per mile.

The other advantage with a HRM is you can wear it in races - for example I run 10k's at 85% (159 bpm for me) - it gives you the confidence that you are running at quite a fast but not excessive pace and that you can maintain it for the whole race. Without the HRM, I had always started off a bit too slowly and never really caught up.

Kenneth Bacon

05/01/2005 at 12:07

I agree with pompeyrunner, when I started using the HRM on the long runs I thought I should be running faster and could have gone faster. You tend to forget that these runs should be at a pace were you can carry on a conservation. But I kept within the limits and found that I could run faster and still keep within the zone.

James Hislop

05/01/2005 at 17:05

I think they have a few HRM in the gym, I will experiment with them soon, I have an 8 mile run tonight so I might use it on Friday (6 miles).
Would many fast running marathon runners use them? sub 3:15

baldyfrombangor

05/01/2005 at 22:26

James

Look at Belfast 2005 thread on events not on teh NDAC site!!

Didnt do glenariff, on way back from torn calf, may do bangor relays with club otherwise it will be the Junior Jan 29 which is tough going.

I am 3hr mara standard and i use my hrm for tempo runs, and long runs where i am not looking at time and distance, just time in the legs.

dont use it much for shorter steady runs or my shorter reps/hills. The fact that i cant breath works on those days.

best to look into the ranges properly, many are just estimated guides and may well be 10% out, i used formula in Advanced Marathoning which takes into account resting HR and a work out for your Max HR

good luck

James Hislop

06/01/2005 at 14:41

My main priority is to acheive a sub 3:15 and hopefully a 3hr time this year in the Belfast Marathon.

From July onwards I may consider training with the HeartRateMonitor if it will help.

What are the disadvantages by not training with it? Is it just a form of measuring your work rate and recovery time?

By the way Baldy, is the Belfast cours in the forum or under Events? I'm not a subscriber yet but I have joined this month with the 3 for a pound trail.