Pacing Help Please

???

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mcs
09/12/2011 at 11:51
I have always found it hard to run slow on the long runs any thoughts or suggestions gratefully recieved.......midweek I run five miles in 40 to 45 mins and then do some intervals and Thursdays I am doing around six in 50 to 55. I find it hard to keep my speed down on longer runs for the first mile I am fine but then creep up.........after 8 miles my speed drops more easily...........is it just a matter of discipline do you think? Thanks in advance.
09/12/2011 at 11:55
Discipline's all very well, but a bit of objective measurement is even better.  Get yourself a heart rate monitor.
mcs
09/12/2011 at 12:04
Thanks Phil............I have a garmin old style but no heart rate monitor.  Used my mates the other week and did the high rate test and got up to 186 resting in the am was 40. So I need to be running conversational pace on the long runs.
09/12/2011 at 12:31

+ 1 for Phil's suggestion  and if you do, then you'd need to look at around  70% or less of max HR to keep at the sort of pace that you've mentioned.

09/12/2011 at 12:45
I agree - HR monitor is the best piece of kit you can get. 70% HR max works well for my LSR's too, though after a couple of hours my HR drifts up a bit. But yyu do need a reliable estimate of your max - I was lucky and a mate did me a VO2 max test and a HR max test in a sports lab as part of me being a "guinea pig" for some research. Hoe did you caculate your HR max mcs?
09/12/2011 at 12:52
When I was doing the marathon training programs which involved an (up to) 10 mile marathon pace run on the Saturday, I had no problem starting off (and staying) slow on the Sunday long run!
mcs
09/12/2011 at 14:06

Thats agood point fido I didn't tend to run on Saturday which meant I was not tired at all come Sunday, though the Hal Higgdon one I have been looking at shows a tempo marathon run on the Saturday. Will have to adjust. The RW schedule didn't show a Saturday tempo run just an easy jog, the last one I followed in 2010.

mitiog......I did the run for 15 minutes then went flat out for five then jogged then really went for it to see how high I could get my hr...............in the am I just put the chest thing on in bed and read it that way before I stood up. Dont know if thats the best way but my mate suggested that way............

09/12/2011 at 14:13

mcs

 the best way I've found to make sure you're running at the pace you can comfortably hold a conversation is to run with someone and spend the whole time chatting......... That way, if at any time you start to find it tough to speak easily, that means you need to slow down!

If this is not an option, then sing along (out loud) to your favourite songs while you run?

09/12/2011 at 14:24
best way to test your max heart rate is horrible, run 100m flat out rest for 10secs do it again repeat upto 20times, after about 12 or 14 the max is normally shown
mcs
09/12/2011 at 14:34
Cheers will try the singing and Choisty that sounds abit grim but will have a go. Just texted mate who is going to let me borrow his timex monitor this weekend. Whats your resting heartbeat Choisty? And max?
09/12/2011 at 16:59

My resting is 38bpm

My max is 189bpm at the last test, a little over 18months ago, I set out to do one each year but it is so painful I tend to duck it

mcs
09/12/2011 at 17:02
Agree with that......what's your running week consist of right now?
09/12/2011 at 17:10

Be prepared for a bit of a shock mcs! Your max can be higher than you think.  I've never done a lab-based HR max test but I have adjusted my numbers based on the fact that I finished a race at 104% once!  Needless to say I don't wear my chest strap in races anymore - it makes me slow down when I glance down to see big numbers!

I'm sure I've heard somewhere that the theoretical max's are based on Swedish swimmers so there can be quite a lot of variance in terms of 220 being used. I use 180 - age + 10 for my steady runs, -20 for my easys and + 20 for tempo. (Maffetone's method)

In my bike racing days (early 20s) I used to regularly get my HR over 200 at the end of time trials.  Still I reckon that approximate ranges are good enough for us mortals - I'm not sure an extra beat or 2 - would make that much difference to training effect.

09/12/2011 at 17:12

My week generally looks like this

Mon: (Lunch optional 4miles) Evening 10miles tempo (half marathon pace)

Tue: Reps (usually hills)

Wed: Long run 10-12 miles

Thu: (lunch optional 6miles) Evening Rep session usually miles

Fri: Run for me, just go out and run as I feel or rest (I very rarely rest)

Sat: Long run 13-18miles

Sun: Rest

This is based on half training, I will need more miles for a marathon

09/12/2011 at 18:53

If you're going to use an HRM, you should calculate your max HR rather than use the theoretical calculations.   There are a number of different ones around, some coming out pretty similar, others vastly different.  I do HR training, know my max as that's what I got when doing the appropriate test, but if I went by some of the calculations, my max would be around 30bpm less than it actually is.

+/- 5 bpm probably won't make much difference, but +/-10 bpm would.

I take my RHR first thing in the morning, before I get up (or even move) luckily I've got a clock with a loud tick, so I can use that without even opening my eyes!

mcs
09/12/2011 at 19:37
Cheers choisty good schedule, I need to get more miles in too as only doing bout thirty at the moment and no hill reps just hilly runs. I rest Saturday's and run long Sunday's generally but sometimes switch it round.
Jeepers do you sleep with the strap on then? Good pointers, sounds like you do it by pulse is that right?
09/12/2011 at 19:54

Resting heart rate of 38?  flippin heck you must have a horse heart!

And another fact I learnt on here is the 220 - your age for max heart rate is bull spit. Same as jeepers my max is 30 bpm higher

I dunno if your garmin does but i can set mine to shout at me if i go too fast? Made a whole world of difference on long runs. 

mcs
09/12/2011 at 20:02
Mine is an old garmin but borrowed a timex which has a strap and you can get it set to different bands so going to play with that this weekend. I can't get my hr up as high cycling unless im going up win hill or Winnats Pass on my road bike I am sure running pushes it up quicker as you tend to get time to rest on a bike.
09/12/2011 at 20:08
I tend to find it hard to start slow on the long runs too. And when I DO get it right, I feel like I COULD go faster, so speed up and STILL muck it up. It´s all about discipline and knowing your own ability, and TRUSTING your discipline. I´ve messed up pacing in the 3 marathons I´ve run... desperately working to get it right (if I muck it up in training, of course I´ll mess the race up!)... it SHOULD be so easy!
mcs
09/12/2011 at 20:10
What times have you done si?
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