Pulling out of a race early.

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Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
15/03/2013 at 15:00
You pay a computer twat to write it for you


And after the 5 race he might even have moved on from the beta version to one that works
15/03/2013 at 15:03

I'm a runner, if I enter a race and have to miss it due to injury or illness, i see that as hard luck, an occupational hazard.

It's happened twice in 11 years, so not something I see any need to change things over.

15/03/2013 at 15:05
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)
You pay a computer twat to write it for you


And after the 5 race he might even have moved on from the beta version to one that works

 

That's what I thought, and I guess that's why clubs don't want to do it.  

15/03/2013 at 15:06
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)

I assume it would probably be for the organisers to prevent being sued, so like for instance Im running along, trip and break my leg, I sue the organisers and then their insurance covers the legal cost for the action to defend it.

And I assume medically it would cover the cost of basic care? I really have no idea, bet most people have no idea.

 

I don't think the insurance would cover that kind of personal injury - The fact that you could trip and break your leg would be considered your 'own risk', and probably in the disclaimer when you sign up.

The exception might be if the organisers had been negligent in some way, eg. taking the route accross a busy dual carriageway, not making provision to stop traffic, and a runner getting hit. Or, say, the giant start clock falls on a runner (I'm struggling to think of the sort of incidents which could realistically occur!)

I 'believe', insurance is more from a 3rd party respect e.g. a runner ignores marshals or strays off course and knocks down a pedestrian / damages property.... and the pedestrian or owner of the property sues. That kind of thing.

I'm basing this on the type of insurance other organisations (Rotary club etc) tend to take out for their events. It would be interesting to hear from someone in the Insurance business.

 

XX1
15/03/2013 at 15:52
Wilkie -- I don't see anyone on this thread suggesting that anyone, let alone small running clubs, set up computer systems or anything else... Who do you think is advocating that?
XX1
15/03/2013 at 16:21

It's being advocated that events should have that kind of system, and many events are organised by running clubs.

Nearly all the events I do are organised by clubs.

15/03/2013 at 16:33
Stevie G . wrote (see)

I'm a runner, if I enter a race and have to miss it due to injury or illness, i see that as hard luck, an occupational hazard.

It's happened twice in 11 years, so not something I see any need to change things over.

 

You should be so lucky. Many who enter events are also carers and parents and are forced to miss races when perfectly fit themselves. Organisers need to look after their customers and I fail to see why official transfers cannot be made. I really don't go along with the idea that it causes far too much work. There is one organiser, for instance, on the Events thread who is adamantly 'no transfers' but seems to spend so much time on the Forum that he would have been able to transfer half the field if necessary.

15/03/2013 at 16:40
Wilkie wrote (see)

So how does a club, run by volunteers, who are a mix of quantity surveyors, nurses, truck drivers, office workers and so  on go about setting up this very easy computerised system (in their spare time)?

OK Wilkie, you asked, so I'll tell you.

Lets say a club came up to me and said 'David, we are a small running club, we have no money but would like a computerised system where we can set up a race online, people can fill out a form with their details and enter that race, and we as the organisers would have access to all the details at any time, have the ability to automatically close off the form if the race numbers reach its limit, have the ability to close off the form for any reason we choose if need be, AND also allow people to come back on AFTER they have registered, and change the details of the runner, with any changes made being highlighted to the organisers so they no a name change was made to that entry.'

And my reply would be:

'That could be done, FREE of charge, in about 10 minutes, with a simple set of instructions to follow and I could do it in a way that YOU as the organiser would fill out a form and the subsequent forms/database would be created for you automatically.'

So heres how its done.

1) Find a techno-geek, lets call him David Falconer.

2) He will find a server that hosts PHP/MySQL.

3) He creates an admin script that allows clubs to log on and 'create' a race, this would be a form where you would list the name of the race, your name as administrator, a password, etc etc.

4) This script then creates the necessary tables in the database to record all the entries for that race and would generate the form for the runners to fill out.

5) You advertise the link to your prospective runners for the race, they fill out the form and they are in the race.

6) You as administrator can log in at any time to see a full list of who has signed up. You could even have the facility to manually change entries yourself if need be or remove entries.

7) The runner who has signed up is injured, he wants his brother to run instead, so he goes onto your race page, enters his name and the password he put when he signed up, and then is able to manually change his details to that of the new person.

8) You as admin can be warned that someone has changed their details so you can check that everything is OK if you want, otherwise you let it continue as normal.

9) If its close to race day and you want to disable the ability for people to change their details, you simply change a setting in your admin that prevents people from now changing their entry.


Total initial time to build: 1 day (this is a one off, initial set up which would never have to be repeated no matter how many races or clubs wanted to use this system)

Total time for you as a club to set up a race with an online system where people can change their records themselves and you have full access to all of the data and the ability to control what they can and cant change and when they can and cant do it : About 10 minutes.

Technical ability required: As long as you have the ability to go to a webpage and fill out a form, thats as technical as it gets for you. You fill out a form, and the system sets everything up for you, all you need to do is tell people the link so they can sign up for your race.

 

Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
15/03/2013 at 16:42
And 10 years to get it to do what it says on the tin
15/03/2013 at 16:50

Sigh, I can see the running world still lives back in the 1980's.

 

15/03/2013 at 16:57

Not everyone is as nice as you DF, to do it for free!

Dave The Ex- Spartan    pirate
15/03/2013 at 17:01
The only time a software engineer gives anything away for free, is when they realise they would never get the public to pay for it !
15/03/2013 at 17:25

lol i would have to do it for free otherwise quite frankly you couldnt afford me . . .  it is funny though to see clubs still doing things the old fashioned way when i already know the tools are there to do things in a much easier way.

15/03/2013 at 18:15

In fairness, a lot of what running clubs SAY about their races differs to what actually HAPPENS.

Example....no entries on day. My old club said this, but weren't daft. They knew people would try and just run it without a place otherwise, so they made sure they allowed it on the day on the low.

Most reasonable clubs will allow transfers, but again, they're not stupid enough to advertise the fact as it invites more work.

XX1
15/03/2013 at 19:15
Wilkie -- Your post today at 16:21... I can see the advocation of existing system modification, which clearly would not impact running clubs that do not currently have their own.
XX1
XX1
16/03/2013 at 14:25
DF3 -- I think we just need a few high spec systems... Running clubs, even the small ones, already have access to these types of systems via Full On Sport, etc... I don't see that every little running club having their own crappy low spec system as being the way forward
XX1
02/04/2013 at 22:12

IN the end the race had to be postponed due to weather. Entrants were then given the chance to defer to one of two races (amazingly one was the race which the organisers said they had nothing to do with), run on the renewed date or donate your entry fee to the race who would donate it to charity

 

 

02/04/2013 at 22:34

So we had this entire debate for nothing then???

03/04/2013 at 11:43

No doubt the debate will be back soon.

Milton Keynes marathon incorporates transfer of places. Good on them. Shame it can't cope with the simplest of transfers, e.g. from affiliated runner to unaffiliated runner without manual intervention from the race organisers.

= Yet another badly spec'd out bit of development work  that a developer was only too willing to implement for them.

03/04/2013 at 11:46

A developer can only deliver what was asked from him. Its up to the project lead or manager to ensure the specs include everything needed, and that the final delivery matches the specs.

 

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