Sound vs Silence

To run with music or without? Join the debate

461 to 480 of 523 messages
08/07/2008 at 11:39
...Yes lets start a costumes thread now...i'm raring to go..i'm on a roll
08/07/2008 at 11:48

Fat Fyes - I agree with Simon

I also agree that the Health and Safety thing gets a bit out of hand but mainly because people can't see mto work out the obvious ones for themselves. The worse people are those that whinge about health and safety and then when they do something stupid say 'Why wasn't there a notice sayng ,please do not pour scalding water over yoursefl. It was your fault I am an idiot"

TMM - I agree this is a sub-set of the overall courtesy issue and it does come down to people being part of a race that involves others. So they need to be aware of them rather than asuming the organisers have put on an event purely for them and anybody else around needs to defer to them and get out of their way.  

Personally I find MP3 wired runners are more often than not a menace, although not always. TMM you take a reasonablty sensible approach, most don't. That is why rules have to be imposed.

 Its like the smoking ban, If people can't work out for themselves that something is the biggest health hazard known to man-kind and is totally preventable and can be done 100% by them then you have to legislate.

08/07/2008 at 12:07

<passes spare smiley face to Simon >

Brooks, I do see your point and I have not doubt that some inconsiderate people with MP3's have become a menace to others....I just find it a bit upsetting that because of these few others who are considerate in their use of music are being punished.  You can't legislate against everything otherwise I would introduce a spot fine for those runners who gob up disgusting green stuff on the side of the road which makes my want to barf!  And I agree with the Health and Safety and idiots....its a bit sad when they have to put a warning on a bag of peanuts that 'this product contains nuts'!!!

Even if MP3's are banned they'll soon be some other group of people that irritate you and some people are inconsiderate in other ways as mentioned before.  Most races have hundreds of participants...statistically someone is going to pi&& you off! 

At the end of the day I have no doubt that some race organisers will impose an mp3 ban on their race and as long as that is made clear then the racing world will cater for everyones needs with other races allowing them...the pole so far is 59:40 for music so this would suggest there is scope to reach some compromise.

*peace sign*

I don't like to see how upset some people are getting about this though....I find that quite strange.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
08/07/2008 at 12:16

Apologies if I state the obvious. I'm not trawling back through 24 pages.....

I've noticed that in the last few years "crowd support" at races I've been running in has dwindled somewhat and if you are on a half or full marathon, there are vast areas of the course that are pretty lonely and music can help you through sometimes.

I don't tend to run races with my earphones in out of choice. I also know it's extremely irritating to faster runners to get held up behind slower people who cannot hear them approaching. The answer to this lies in far more start line organisation and PROPER pens, where runners declare (and prove) their PB and are categorised accordingly and I'm sorry, but if you're a newbie, then you're at the back till you've proved yourself. Football teams don't go straight into the premier league do they?

I'm not a very fast runner. My 10K time is 57 minutes. I always feel a bit guilty when people are trying to get past me, but equally, you've got no right to push me out of the way. What we need is a bit of consideration for other people.

My very pet hate is fat girlies in RFL walking arm in arm in a long chain! What's that all about??

08/07/2008 at 13:19

I'm with Simon on this one - it strikes me as very distasteful to use the "what about deaf runners" argument to justify the use of MP3 players.   Yes, a deaf runner cannot hear you coming up behind them, but a deaf runner is aware of his/her disablilty and knows how to cope with it, and adjusts their behaviour accordingly.  A deaf runner is involuntarily unable to hear and should not be penalised for that; an ipod wearer is voluntarily unable to hear and other people should not be penalised for that.  Anyone who wishes to participate in sport and works round their disability to do so should be applauded and encouraged; anyone whose approach to life is sufficiently solipsistic that they think they can race in a little bubble which affects no-one else in the race is kidding themselves.

 I am not against the use of MP3 players as I have said before, and use them myself on occasion in training, but I am against inconsiderate behaviour.  The argument that there are inconsiderate people who don't wear MP3 players, therefore inconsiderate people who do wear them should be allowed to get on with it, strikes me as both illogical and the counsel of despair.  Yes, there are inconsiderate people out there, both wearing and not wearing MP3 players; yes, there are other behaviours exhibited in races which are inconsiderate and are not banned; we should not therefore throw our hands in the air and say "I give up, it's every man for himself, I don't like you blowing snot rockets in a race so I'm going to wear my MP3 player and tune out all the other racers".  Instead, we should work to spread the message that, if you participate in a race with other people, it's not all about you, your comfort, convenience and preferences do not have more importance than those of other participants, and if you want to take part, you'd better show a bit of courtesy to your fellow racers.

08/07/2008 at 13:20

Liverbird - I really agree with you there. I think proper organisation at the start is key to keeping it all running smoothly, and keeping it "safe". The whole ban mp3 idea is just stupid when a large group of people running together isn't exactly the most "safe" idea anyway in a health and safety obsessed world. People should be allowed to enjoy running in whatever way suits them.

On a different but related note, I just got back from a run without music and I gotta say it was probably one of the first times where I've actually enjoyed running in silence more than with music. Although I did start singing to myself at points, but that most definitely doesn't count as music .

08/07/2008 at 13:26

People should be allowed to enjoy running in whatever way suits them.

Even if  that is potentially to the detriment of others?

No amount of good race organisation can prevent people behaving inconsiderately.  We need to take responsibility for our own behaviour, not expect "authorities" to do it all for us. 

08/07/2008 at 13:47

Agreed Slo sho - been some good arguments about this on the thread - but there is alot of what seems to me as 'Me me me, sod everyone else - I MUST wear my MP3 in races - so deal with it!

I hate PC crap and health and safety as much as the next person, but this is more about common courtesy than anything else.

FF - Thanks for the ...dunno why they disappeared from that thread! Regarding the 59:40 for music - depends in which mag really - would be a different result in Athletics weekly I reckon!

08/07/2008 at 14:02
Thanks Simon - I think you just said what I meant a hell of a lot more succinctly than I did!
LIVERBIRD    pirate
08/07/2008 at 15:46

I've taken to singing ABBA songs in my head! All about the same tempo as my legs and I don't need to actually vocalise the sound!

Otherwise you'd have a barrel load more complaints......

"Mamma Mia, here I go again...."!!!!

08/07/2008 at 16:36

I like the word courtesy...

 We used to be taught that when we learnt to drive, consideration and courtesy mean traffic flows, people giving way and doing all with a cheery wave and smile. Now were all about road rage and going for the gap.

I have to say that irrespective of wearing mp3 players, the issue is about sensible awareness of your surrounds. I agree with those who say deafness is a poor argument and taints the argument, these souls have developed their other senses and are living with a permanent need to overcome the disability so they are totally distinguished out of this argument.

But if your wholly focused on what you do, struggling, in a catatonic state or just so competitive that someone in your way, or your being in someones way will happen, earphones or not. Withsome courtesy and consideration, on both sides, then there would not be a problem, but the competitive spirit sometimes exceeds the sporting one where taking part used to be the pleasure and winning the bonus.

So lets get real, lets stop looking at the effect and consider the cause, cos it aint listening to music that upsets folk............... its the bad manners

08/07/2008 at 22:05

How do other sports get on in training and competition? Triathlon and Ironman, football, rugby, hockey, swimming, cycling. Is it really only running that has these problems. Is there an undesirable element in running or are runners more friendly and accommodating? How would you feel if the 'goalie' was on the phone! The cyclist in front of you pulls up to sort his mp3! The teams hooker decides to take a photo of the game!

I wonder if the big charity involvement in running has attracted many who would never have considered running (or any sport) and excellent as that may be, many of those runners need a 'prop'. Others attracted to running to lose weight might also need a 'prop'. 

My earlier post recognises all as runners though I feel recognition must be given to those who are runners because they want to run, get PBs, improve their times etc. Many of the big race organisers are competing with each other to get a world record, the biggest race field or the biggest amount collected from sponsorship. Though they put the elite up front they really have forgotten about those between the elite and the fun runners.    

08/07/2008 at 22:25

Would never dream of using a personal music player at training (hockey goalie) - the coach would bollock us as it would be a)extremely rude and b) a complete distraction from the focus and concentration we need all the time ( so also more than a little dangerous) but it is a fast moving highly competitve team sport so we dont need the distraction or get bored despite it being a 2 hour session!

might use music pre match to get psyched or to warm up with but that would be with a ghetto blaster in the changing room when we would do a group aerobic session

I suppose the other side of it is that sports have rules and using gadgets is quite clearly outside of those rules ..if i stuck a ghetto blaster in the back of my goal for the quiet bits during a match the umpires would haul it out right away !

14/07/2008 at 14:54
I have only been running for 10 months. I train alone so I usually listen to music when running. I had my mp3 player with me for the first 3 races I run in this year and done quite well. However after reading some other posts about running without I thought I would give it a go. In the last  2 races I have done without music I have been significantly faster, I knocked 3mins 14 secs off my pb first time, then another 1min 19 secs off that pb second time out. I now intend never to run a race with headphones on again.
14/07/2008 at 14:58

you know it makes sense

14/07/2008 at 18:07
I do now.. I always thought I could never run without headphones.. Now I realise that the people wearing them cant hear you coming so it`s even better when you pass them to see the look on their faces wondering where did he bloody come from.. It`s great motivation..
14/07/2008 at 18:38

Liverbird - what is RBL in relation to fat girls?? I am intrigued........

 There are clearly some passionate responses on this blog. I responded many pages ago and am a great believer in choice and taking responsibility for oneself whilst running. I seem to pant like a rabid dog when I run and so hate listening to myself. I have my MP3 on but can not tell you what I am listening to as I do not actually listen to the music but use it more to focus. I ran a very tiring 12 miler yesterday and did acknowledge the Rocky music which was well timed for my last 1/4 mile and brought a smile to my very tired and red face.

 Live and let live - Simon.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
14/07/2008 at 21:23

*had to read back*

I said RFL - Race For Life. You don't have to be fat to run it!

I have nothing against it either (it's how I began running and I was a fat bird then!!) but my objection is simply that women enter it with NO INTENTION of running even a metre, and because they know they can walk if they want to, they get in a line and link arms and treat it as a jolly. It is called RACE for life, and I think they're missing a trick by not putting in a bit of training and at least giving it a proper go. Who knows, it might improve their fitness and start them off on this mad world of running......!

Just a personal opinion, though you understand. I know RFL raises bucketloadds of dosh for Cancer Research and I hope it continues to do so!

15/07/2008 at 00:04
Simon/Slo Sho - I wasn't intending to be disrespectful or distasteful in putting forward the argument about deaf runners. I was just trying to show the contradiction in the logic of "ban MP3's because MP3 users can't hear" but "allow deaf runners because they can't hear"

And again - always the assumption that .... (slo sho) 'an ipod wearer is voluntarily unable to hear' and (valleyboi) 'I realise that the people wearing them can't hear you coming' - not all MP3 users have the volume so loud that it cuts out all noise. Several of the pro-MP3 posters to this debate have said this.

OK - now to play Devil's Advocate .....back to the deaf person vs MP3 wearer. Again I don't intend to be disrespectful - I just want to explore the logic of the situation.

Here you are, a non-MP3 wearing runner coming up behind a slower runner and needing to get by. If you see they are wearing headphones, you assume the worst and expect them not to have heard you. You may have to shout or get into their peripheral vision before they notice and let you pass. OK, a slight delay but you do get past.

The next slower runner is a non-headphone wearing runner - this one should hear you even though you're still behind them - they move over and you get past - you don't even need to slow down as you know they will move over. .....

(Now dons horns and pointed tail)

... but how do you know this runner isn't deaf? Do you run the risk of running into them because you assume they can hear you and will move? At least with the headphone wearer you have visible warning that they may be difficult to pass!! Surely that makes it safer, rather than riskier.

How can you tell if the runner in front is deaf or can hear? If the runner in front is wearing headphones, how can you tell how loud they have the music? Surely some of the onus for passing safely lies with the person who is doing the passing.

OK - I'm not saying it isn't inconvenient or inconsiderate ... but there have been several other examples of 'inconsiderate' posted here.

So - should MP3's be banned, and deaf runners have signs on their backs - for 'health and safety' - or should we all just be a little more tolerant.
8iron    pirate
15/07/2008 at 00:23
once you get hit by a car you never wear them again! and i was on the pavement!  Simply dangerous end of story!
461 to 480 of 523 messages
Previously bookmarked threads are now visible in "Followed Threads". You can also manage notifications on these threads from the "Forum Settings" section of your profile settings page to prevent being sent an email when a reply is made.
Forum Jump