Sound vs Silence

To run with music or without? Join the debate

481 to 500 of 525 messages
15/07/2008 at 00:04
Simon/Slo Sho - I wasn't intending to be disrespectful or distasteful in putting forward the argument about deaf runners. I was just trying to show the contradiction in the logic of "ban MP3's because MP3 users can't hear" but "allow deaf runners because they can't hear"

And again - always the assumption that .... (slo sho) 'an ipod wearer is voluntarily unable to hear' and (valleyboi) 'I realise that the people wearing them can't hear you coming' - not all MP3 users have the volume so loud that it cuts out all noise. Several of the pro-MP3 posters to this debate have said this.

OK - now to play Devil's Advocate .....back to the deaf person vs MP3 wearer. Again I don't intend to be disrespectful - I just want to explore the logic of the situation.

Here you are, a non-MP3 wearing runner coming up behind a slower runner and needing to get by. If you see they are wearing headphones, you assume the worst and expect them not to have heard you. You may have to shout or get into their peripheral vision before they notice and let you pass. OK, a slight delay but you do get past.

The next slower runner is a non-headphone wearing runner - this one should hear you even though you're still behind them - they move over and you get past - you don't even need to slow down as you know they will move over. .....

(Now dons horns and pointed tail)

... but how do you know this runner isn't deaf? Do you run the risk of running into them because you assume they can hear you and will move? At least with the headphone wearer you have visible warning that they may be difficult to pass!! Surely that makes it safer, rather than riskier.

How can you tell if the runner in front is deaf or can hear? If the runner in front is wearing headphones, how can you tell how loud they have the music? Surely some of the onus for passing safely lies with the person who is doing the passing.

OK - I'm not saying it isn't inconvenient or inconsiderate ... but there have been several other examples of 'inconsiderate' posted here.

So - should MP3's be banned, and deaf runners have signs on their backs - for 'health and safety' - or should we all just be a little more tolerant.
8iron    pirate
15/07/2008 at 00:23
once you get hit by a car you never wear them again! and i was on the pavement!  Simply dangerous end of story!
15/07/2008 at 10:16

With the volume turned down you might be able to hear a car, you won't hear a bike.

shenders, that is ridiculous - no one overtaking should risk running into anyone: of course the onus lies on the overtaker. However, if the runner they are overtaking is weaving all over the place because they are not aware of the runners queuing up to overtake them then that is their fault, and they are to blame if they get hurt becausee they are being inconsiderate.

I don't think (many) people were complaining that in a race they shout and overtake (in fact, who would do that? Surely if the person being overtaken knew you were trying to overtake them they'd speed up?!). Most people were referring to marshalls shouting. A deaf runner would probably be extra-cautious in, for example, crossing a road during a race. People with MP3s are not used to such additional caution in their everyday lives. The only instance may be where there was, for example, an ambulance coming along the course behind the runners and the marshalls asking runners to move aside to let it through. If a deaf runner could see that a marshall was clearly trying to say something they would probably respond to the actions of the people around them, or, if it wasn't clear, stop so that they could lip-read. If this werent the case, in this instance you would hope that someone would grab them and pull them into the side. I wouldn't expect to have to do this to someone wearing a headset.

Race For Life - it is an occapational hazard of those particular events. If you are planning to run it you need to get a long way up the field. If you are planning to run it at any sort of speed you need to be on the first or second line. If you don't do that then you can't really complain because that's what it is - a run/walk mass-participation event. If it annoys you that much go and run a 5km somewhere else and get sponsored to raise money for cancer research uk.

-------------------------

Anyway, in the interests of open-mindedness I took my zen on an easy run around the field where the rest of my group were doing a track session last Tuesday (I raced Wednesday). I did:

1km warm-up alone

3km with one earpiece in with someone

3km with both earpieces in, tempo, alone

1km warm down without music with people.

 I found:

* the music did detract from it being a very boring run

* the music only did anything to set/improve pace or cadence when both earpieces were in

* the music was very distracting to pace - for example, songs that started or finished slowly caused loss of rhythm/tempo. This is what is difficult in race - people suddenly and inadvertantly slowing.

* my balance was affected

* people were much better company than music (and I am someone who isn't very good at talking and running at the same time).

In conclusion, fine for an easy run in a safe location like I was in. However, would never consider wearing them anywhere else or for a session or race which required concentration or consistency. I also wouldn't wear them anywhere with an uneven surface. 

I support a race ban wholeheartedly.

LIVERBIRD    pirate
15/07/2008 at 12:38

DiS - How was your balance affected? That's a really interesting finding.

As for RFL, not been involved in years now. The distance isn't a challenge and I'll leave it to those who want to be involved. I think the "get on the first / second row" is good advice in most races if you don't want people walking after 200 yards in front of you!

8iron - how did you get hit by a car on a pavement? Shouldn't you be on my stupid injury thread?

15/07/2008 at 12:41

Nature provides a splendid soundtrack for my runs.

And I have to shout at the dog every now and again (run with our 2 year old black lab). 

15/07/2008 at 12:57
Particularly with headphones in one ear found I was slower to react to correct balance if, for example, treadding on a big stick, ducking to avoid being taken out by tree branch and when turning sharp corners. Hearing and balance are connected, but I'm not sure if it was physiological or simply the existence of a distraction.
15/07/2008 at 13:39

Shenders - I see your points, but the point still remains that deaf people have no choice in the matter, whereas MP3 wearers decide to make them selves partially deaf.

Hy - you were on a training run, right? I have never said that people should not be able to use them whilst training - thats silly! But when you enter a race, you are bound by the rules - and I would hope that you would respect them and not use an MP3 if asked not to.

I personally just hope a blanket ban comes in...then people will find out if they can run properly or not without their crutch in both ears.

Edited: 15/07/2008 at 13:39
15/07/2008 at 14:21

crutch in both ears....that sounds painful

sorry Simon, I tried resist....truly I did.

<continues to sit back and watch amused as the debate rotate into another circle>

15/07/2008 at 16:18
...Then I would be genuinely impressed
LIVERBIRD    pirate
15/07/2008 at 16:31

If you've got a crutch in both ears, people will have to run further to get round you.....

There! We've sorted that problem out!

Next......

Iraq, anyone?

15/07/2008 at 17:15

pmsl! Liverbird!

God I wish I wasn't so immature.....

8iron    pirate
15/07/2008 at 20:45
liverbird - maybe!!  46 mph in a 30 mph zone off a pavement police had camera too.  6 points and £180 fine. then bloke dissapeared!!  not my finest hour!!
21/07/2008 at 14:17
boing for simon Forbes
21/07/2008 at 23:42

Don't forget that a lot of it depends on your running style, some "go inwards" and tune out exterior noise/distraction, others "go outwards" and are much more aware of their surroundings.

I can't listen to music while at home - can't listen to it if reading (book/paper etc) as I'm too aware of it, yet I need it when I run.  I take my MP3 player, wear earpieces and have the volume at a level where I can hear traffic/pedestrians so I'm safe and so are those around me.

As soon as I start out, I tune out the outside world - it's just the type of person/runner I am.  That said, I have had problems with pedestrians when coming up to them, calling out "excuse me" etc , they are so engrossed in their conversations that they haven't heard/noticed me.

I also ran a race a few weeks ago where people were running alongside each other, talking. By chatting and running abreast like that, they were just as much of a nuisance and  actually made it more difficult to pass them as the choice was either through the middle, (practically impossible, not to mention bad manners!!) or around to one side - again, difficult to negotiate and then breaks stride patterns etc.

I use my MP3 player and am proud to say I do!

22/07/2008 at 13:24

I'm not an expert but I do know that hearing and balance are related. 

Recently - fell off a horse onto my back and literally saw green - both hearing and the feeling of being able to balance (sitting, standing and walking) were affected for about 2 hours. 

Also when I had chronic fatigue, I noticed that when I was very fatigued, I could either listen or could stand - I couldn't do both stimultanously.   

LIVERBIRD    pirate
22/07/2008 at 16:09
I know that alcohol and balance are related.......
22/07/2008 at 16:16

Sorry, did Simon say he wanted a blanket ban, I thought this thread was about banning music, not blankets.....................

22/07/2008 at 16:17
OK, I apologise, irreverent post!  Dragging this into the realm of?
LIVERBIRD    pirate
22/07/2008 at 16:18
I want to ban banning things. It should be banned.
LIVERBIRD    pirate
22/07/2008 at 16:19

I'd like to ban bands. And Band Aid. And banners. And banks.

Especially banks. Robbing swines.....

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