The Stillman Formula for optimal running weight

'come across' isn't either...

I should have said death maybe, and not suicide. My bad for any assumption.

But anyone first time in that general arena will not even think to use that casual language; they're faking.

 faking! explain.

YoungPup wrote (see)

Blimey - this thread is getting heated, and yet the words "storm" "teacup" "mountain" and "molehill" all spring to mind.

I'm not going to comment at all on several of the more serious points people have made, as I don't feel I have any basis to do so.

However, I did want to comment and say that it strikes me that the Stillman formula is a load of utter bollocks unless you're an elite level runner?

I'm male, 5 ft 9, I run around 50m a week, I have a body fat percentage which my annual medical tells me places me in the top 5% for my age, and yet I weigh just over 11st (156lbs)? However, according to Stillman, as a middle distance runner I should weigh around 9.5 st (around 130-5lbs?????).

Sorry if this comes across as facetious, but it strikes me as only applying to such a small population of runners, and for probably 99 out of a 100 users of this forum it will be utterly irrelevant and completely out of reach.....

I agree. Just read an article; featuring the formula, from 'Peak Perfomance', which had a certain turn of phrase about it. Not surprised to discover the late Frank Horwill had penned it.

On the subject. It is possible to get down to these % but from distant experience the only ways that are feasible is to either be a youth who's still to build muscle mass or an adult who's prepared to lose some, and also put up with the, "you're too thin" comments. 

On the other subject. Hillingdon and Uxbridge Gazette, Northwood & Northwood Hills section. I have a Garmin trace which puts me 'time and place'. 

Steve G; if you read the article I mentioned above (Food glorious food) the weight of this professional athlete (at his lowest) is not too far off Killermiles weight (proportional to height) I would be suprised if a pro was 'dangerously' underweight, his weight would have been 8st something and 5' 11".

RicF wrote (see)

 faking! explain.

 

Have you ever seen When Harry met Sally?

Indeed, one of my favourite films. I know, the scene in the diner, "I'll have whats she's having!".

SideBurn wrote (see)

Steve G; if you read the article I mentioned above (Food glorious food) the weight of this professional athlete (at his lowest) is not too far off Killermiles weight (proportional to height) I would be suprised if a pro was 'dangerously' underweight, his weight would have been 8st something and 5' 11".

You'd be right to be "surprised" a pro was dangerously underweight, because the guy in your article is nowhere near that.

Lowest weight mentioned was 57kg (8 stone 13)
height 5ft 10

That's a BMI of just under 18, which is only very slightly into the underweight category, something that'd you expect of a pro athlete.

Comparing that to a guy who weights over half a stone less at 5inches taller with a BMI of 14.5 (ie massively dangerously underweight), is ignorantly stupid.

Hi there

We have received an alert about this thread. While I understand the concerns raised, I don't think deleting the thread is the answer. Engaging in a useful debate about this sensitive subject seems the better option, and for the most part the comments are sensible and useful. We want the forums to be a place where everyone can share their passion for running and appreciate your efforts to make them a positive experience.

Alison, RW

Jelleybaby wrote (see)

Lardarse - you have made some good points and I do see where you are coming from, and as I said in my post above  'I thoroughly agree that more open discussion re eating disorders and running (or other sports) would be very beneficial. It is a commmonly misunderstood condition - and a very dangerous one at that, but i'm not convinced this thread is the one to use.'

If there was a general thread about body image, weight, diet etc that would be great - it's the starting point on this thread I find challenging, but I really do accept that I am probably more sensitive about it than non ED sufferers!

I wasn't trying to lecture you, really I wasn't, that's not me at all, but I often feel i'm not eloquent enough so I have to reiterate everything I say, which then makes others feel like i'm patronising them when actually it's my flaw.

As for non ed sufferers, I never said i had no knowledge of this, but others make assumptions

 ....below is a good example!

bos1 wrote (see)

When I mentioned the potential for distress a thread like this would cause was more related to distress to people who might be in the proces of recovering, or have recovered.

Deleting a thread or letting it die is not censorship. It may me about being aware of sensitivities. And I do not find it edifying that two posters such as kk and lardarse should thry to school anyone on posting on the internet. Certainly not someone who has direct experience to share.

and kk I really do wonder how you think linking an article about athletes starving themselves for success does anything other validate the OP. You and lardarse think you should post on anything, but:
you are not making this thread into an awareness thread, you just demonstrate how unaware you are
you are not helping the OP
you are not helping other ED people other than demonstrating that you dont know how to listen.

Having an internet connection and a keyboard doesnt mean you should comment on everything. In real life most people can demonstrate tact and sensitivity. Waving the censorship card shows a lack of understand about what censorship really is.

JFYI, i've struggled all my life with my weight, that tends to be the case when you're 6 yrs old and 8st, 8 yrs old and 10st etc, up until I was 15yrs old and 16.5st I decided in my infinite wisdom to starve my weight off, I lost 5st in 3 months eating once a day, but you know what, I still wasn't happy with my body composition, I still had what I considered to be enormous moobs, and flabby skin, so in my eyes I was fat... Long story short, it never ends.

So yes you're right, having a keyboard doesn't mean you should comment on everything you read, maybe you should take some of your own medicine and shut the fuck up. Maybe if i'd been exposed to sensible training, proper portion control, I wouldn't have spent the last 25yrs binging and starving and never attaining what I wanted? You know the sort of advice you can get from a place like this...

Lardarse - i honestly never thought you were trying to lecture me at all, I just wasn't quite sure that you realised it was this post in particular rather than a post re ED's body image etc that I find more difficult probably because I am more sensitive to most about the topic. Looking at the picture of Killermiles is very distressing to me (and probably many others especially if in recovery/partial recovery from an ED as well - I hope he gets some help from a professional asap).

Sometimes we all struggle to say what we mean when using a keyboard - I know I spent days considering whether to add a comment initially or not, and then wondered if I had done the right thing

Your post above is personal and honest - be proud of that - it is eloquent!   Without doubt ED of any form are a daily struggle.......but as someone said to me recently - recovery is hard and lonely but worth it!   

I'd like to thank Alison and RW for coming onto the thread and responding to the forum.

I can't think of anything meaningful to say that hasn't already been said. I think the issue of body image and weight amongst athletes is something which has been simmering for a while. If everyone remembers that just before the olympics, someone in the GB camp said Jess Ennis was fat.

Steve G; The article does not say how low he went. 57kg was considered about right! He then says he lost a lot more; 57kg is 6.5kg lighter than me (who gets stick for being underweight for the same height) you need to see some of these riders!

Jelleybaby wrote (see)

 Looking at the picture of Killermiles is very distressing to me (and probably many others especially if in recovery/partial recovery from an ED as well - I hope he gets some help from a professional asap).

One thing that I wonder about, and I hope this comes out right. But I do wonder why people with eating disorders or recovering from, are on a running forum/website.

My gut feeling (and people tell me if I'm over generalising) is that people in this position shouldn't be looking at running. Other exercise yes/maybe, running no.

I could expand on that as to why I feel it. Basically for physical reasons, but more for psychological reasons, I don't think the motivation for running is a healthily led motivation.

Thoughts anyone, happy to know if I'm way off.

You maybe right KK. As I have said before, I only started running when I realised that runners are, for the main, a skinny bunch of folk. I used to get asked if I ran so I used to lie and say that I did so that I could justify being underweight.

Since I started running I have put on about a a stone in weight, by Stillmans calculations that make me 22lbs overweight (at the extreme end). I have also started swimming and cycling and playing hockey and have quite a bit of muscle mass and not much in the way of body fat. If I compare myself with other runners I know, I'm the fat one.

I'm not about to lose any muscle mass as I prefer swimming to running and want to improve at that. It's unfortunate that I happen to be a better runner than I am swimmer.

I used to find it very easy to starve myself and not eat, some days my total consumption would be 3 rice cakes. Part of me wants to lose the weight the other part wants to be able to go swim in the sea and not feel tired.

I only have so much energy and I want to focus on training and not not eating. I'm not annorexic but I don't have a great relationship with eating / food.

KK - But I do wonder why people with eating disorders or recovering from, are on a running forum/website. I use this website because I run despite being in partial recovery from anorexia. my GP and dietician both know I run and although my weight is low I am maintaining it at its current level. It is a difficult issue and I know why you (and probably others) find it hard to think why people with ED's run - but I have only had a ED for the past seven year - my previous 43 were normal and I always did some form of sport and ran the London marathon about 20 years ago as well. Running gives me the motivation to eat - i am coping with trying new foods (sometimes) and I really enjoy going out for a run! There is also the benefit of promoting bone growth as well. I know that if i want to run well, get PB's, recover in time and keep healthy I have to eat.

Obviously everyone is different, for me some exercise has always been a part of my lifestyle, but never every day etc, but for other people exercise perhaps should be avoided. But for me motivation to run means I eat better than when I do no exercise. I also think of people like Chrissie Wellington who had an ED - look how well she has done!!   And actually - running is really good fun ED or no ED and this website has been a wealth of info for me regarding running stuff in general not just diet.

Hope this makes some sense!

I didn't know that Chrissie had an ED, she's a phenomenal talent.