Why would an average marathon runner such as Claire Squires take drugs to...

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30/01/2013 at 15:43

Whose Jenny?

30/01/2013 at 15:51
Run Wales wrote (see)

To take the sugar coating off...  I think the OP is indeed being crass in using words like stupid, foolish etc about the girl.   The 'stupid and foolish' people were the people making money by continuing to manufacture and supply it to consumers.

 

Although to be honest every drug on the market has possible side affects from pick it up at the supermarket aspirin to prescribed drugs from your GP.

The drug here must have passed approval at some point to have been sold legally, but there are cases of drugs being pulled as certain issues are not discovered until they are out there. No drug company will pull a drug based on possibles either. Sadly the millions they invest in developing the drug and getting it to market will be first and foremost in their mind unless they have a bad drug epidemic on their hands.

30/01/2013 at 15:56

A couple of my friends bought a weight loss product from health food shops that sounds scarily similar, they were raving about the way it made them lose weight by making their "bodies work harder" even at rest - increased heart rate and increased core temperature.

I told them at the time that I thought taking some kind of legal speed to lose weight was the stupidest thing I'd heard, but will send those linked articles to them. Whatever it is they were taking was available to buy during summer 2012.

30/01/2013 at 16:00

This is incredibly sad, as the only thing we can be certain of is that she had no idea that this "boost" would have such catastrophic effects.

I'd never heard of DMAA prior to reading the BBC website, but a quick google shows its been marketed as a geranium extract for several years, which sounds quite benign.  Its only in recent years (and since the VLM in the UK) that suspicions have been raised and countries have started banning it. 

As NLR mentioned, I don't think there's any runner in a marathon who isn't looking for a nutrional boost - be it beetroot shots or jelly babies!  Its one of the major differentiators between the marathon and shorter runs, as you have to consider fuelling during the event.

 

30/01/2013 at 16:05

Eggy, one interesting thing that came out of my (quick) search was the loophole that let this drug get out there without thorough testing.  By labelling it as a geranium extract it didn't have to go through the same pharmacology(?) testing/approvals as synthetics drugs.  One of the key steps in getting it banned was proving that it was proving that it wasn't a naturally occuring chemical within the geranium plant, and therefore was a synthesised product (and therefore required more stringent testing, which someone would have to pay for).

PS I don't really know anything about pharmacology and this was only a few minutes googling - so I'm quite likely to be inaccurate!

 

kittenkat    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:10
Eggyh73 wrote (see)
kittenkat wrote (see)
Eggyh73 wrote (see)
kittenkat wrote (see)

The coroner has ruled that the drug was a factor in her death, so the drug was a factor in her death.

No he hasn't. The drug was found in her water bottle. They can't even confirm if she drank it.

EDIT: What they said it was "possible", but as I state they can't actually confirm she even took it that day. The drug has been banned since due to other studies on it.

Not according to the BBC, clicky!

 

The BBC article is badly written. Notice they don't quote the corners words, but try to summarise for him!

Let's face it with her heart issue, running for a PB your heart is working big time anyway. The product if she took it increases heart rate which is adding extra pressure, mind you caffeine would do the same trick.

I agree she was daft to ignore the fact she didn't get on with it during her long runs, but they don't specify what "didn't get on was". That could have been anything from feeling ill due to heart pressure, a dose of the trots or some good old fashioned stomach cramps.

Running for a PB doesn't necessarily mean that your heart rate is working big time. Also an irregular heart beat isn't necessarily a heart issue, it can just be an irregular heartbeat and have no impact on the situation. That's my own opinion though just from knowing someone who has one.

 

seren nos    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:21
xine267 wrote (see)

A couple of my friends bought a weight loss product from health food shops that sounds scarily similar, they were raving about the way it made them lose weight by making their "bodies work harder" even at rest - increased heart rate and increased core temperature.

I told them at the time that I thought taking some kind of legal speed to lose weight was the stupidest thing I'd heard, but will send those linked articles to them. Whatever it is they were taking was available to buy during summer 2012.

that was my first thought.....

seren nos    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:29

David.not sure a heart rate monitor would help much...people ofeten have spikes.......at the beginning of a cross country mine was over 200 for the first 1/2 a mile......normally goes up towards 190 in a race........

what info from your HR monitor would make you stop in a race if you were on for a PB

kittenkat    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:29
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)

Also a reason to wear a heart monitor during a race ...... I never leave home without one ..... 

Oh come on people have run for centuries without heart monitors, we're really becoming a comfort blankie holding nation.

 

30/01/2013 at 16:29
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)

Also a reason to wear a heart monitor during a race ...... I never leave home without one ..... 

Her heart rate must have been through the roof!

I saw 289 on mine this morning, couldn't decide on poor contact, over head power lines or the lycra clad ass of the wench in front having an effect on an old man


 

Edited: 30/01/2013 at 16:29
kittenkat    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:32
Keyboard_Worrier wrote (see)

Whose Jenny?

"Who the fuck is Alice?" has never been answered, wait in line!

30/01/2013 at 16:33

During a race is one place I never wear my HRM....  I never give a sh!t about it racing, and so long as I make the pub after who cares what it hit during the race

30/01/2013 at 16:37

According to this article, the irregular heartbeat is a red herring in the story.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/30/dead-marathon-runner-banned-stimulant-dmaa

Apparently the irregular was 'diagnosed' by her acupuncturist, she didn't mention it to friends, family or her GP, and the doctor who reviewed her medical files seems to think it's more likely to be the substance found in her blood that contributed to the heart attack.

30/01/2013 at 16:41

The only Garmin I have is used in the mountains

kittenkat    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:46
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)
Dave The Ex- Spartan wrote (see)

During a race is one place I never wear my HRM....  I never give a sh!t about it racing, and so long as I make the pub after who cares what it hit during the race

Thats cause youre a man's man .......... me, I dont even take a leak without asking my Garmin what it thinks .....

What does it say about asparagus?

30/01/2013 at 16:46

So the lady took a sports supplement. Which has been subsequently been withdrawn or banned from sale.

kittenkat    pirate
30/01/2013 at 16:49
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)

"Apparently the irregular was 'diagnosed' by her acupuncturist"

WTF?

Thats like going to a clairvoyant and asking them whether they think the spot on your skin could be cancerous ....... what would an acupuncturist know ........ geez if they had made that public first up, we could have dropped the whole 'irregular heart beat' nonsense straight away.

 

How can you catch an irregular heatbeat in the first place; to be able to drop it? Seriously good reflexes.

30/01/2013 at 17:00
David Falconer 3 wrote (see)

Oh dear, someone hasnt actually bothered to do any research before posting, always a danger when trying to contradict someones agrument ... actually a year before she died, jack3d had been removed from most retailers due to efforts by the government to ban the product and concerns over what it contained. Hence why she didnt buy it 'over the counter' but instead on the internet. That should be your first clue when your local supplement store doesnt sell it and you need to source it over the internet.

....


Why is that we have to play by your rules, and that we can't play by mine? Since when do you have more rights than me? You are always free to not read what I post if you are offended. Thats whats wrong with this country, people are looking to be offended all the time.

I feel uncomfortable getting into a petty argument over a sad story. But

  • How do you know that she knew that these legal supplements weren't on sale in the local shop?  You appear to be jumping to this conclusion (although, as I said, I haven't read deeply into the case)
  • Don't you know that the internet is the new "over the counter".   People treat internet shops the same as physical shops, and would not normally see a reason not to trust an on-line shop. Perhaps you're a bit out of touch.
  • It seems highly likely that she thought she was buying a safe product, but you seem desperate to lay blame on the poor girl, calling her foolish and stupid
  • Like I said earlier, it is valid and positive to raise the debate, but not by slagging off the poor young girl who has died.

As for your personal attack on me

  • You earlier proudly stated that you're forthright. But it seems you don't like it when people are forthright in return.
  • "You can give it but you can't take it" is the phrase that comes to mind.
  • I never asked to "play by my rules, rather than yours" - it seems that it is you who is now desperately trying to "be offended". You poor lamb.
30/01/2013 at 17:19
stutyr wrote (see)

Eggy, one interesting thing that came out of my (quick) search was the loophole that let this drug get out there without thorough testing.  By labelling it as a geranium extract it didn't have to go through the same pharmacology(?) testing/approvals as synthetics drugs.  One of the key steps in getting it banned was proving that it was proving that it wasn't a naturally occuring chemical within the geranium plant, and therefore was a synthesised product (and therefore required more stringent testing, which someone would have to pay for).

PS I don't really know anything about pharmacology and this was only a few minutes googling - so I'm quite likely to be inaccurate!

 

If it's sold as a herbal remedy it doesn't go through the process a developed drug would. It's the reason so many of these herbal supplements can be sold with horrifically bad science used to back up their benefits.

30/01/2013 at 17:22

On the heart rate monitor thing. I never run with one on.

 

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